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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285526: Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:09:43 AM

Universal Basic Income is a step that is probably necessary as we march forward into a future where automation displaces enough jobs that not every productive individual can be guaranteed gainful employment. It is also a bridge into a hypothetical post-scarcity economy in which we can easily produce enough for every person in the country to have the necessities of life — food, water, clothing, housing, education, communication, entertainment — whether they work or not.

Another way to look at it is as an alternative to numerous other steps that would have to be taken to guarantee the above, such as:

  • Improvements to and additional funding for welfare, food stamp, and housing programs.
  • Substantial increases to the minimum wage.
  • Protections against "zero-hour" and contingent contracts, unpaid overtime, and other forms of labor exploitation.

You can struggle for every single law to improve working conditions, pay, and support for the poor; or you can do away with that and give everyone what they need up front. Obviously it's not quite that simple, but this illustrates why it's so attractive to many.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2019 at 2:10:38 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#285527: Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:18:20 AM

I dunno about that. If you give people slightly more money, but leave every other systemic problem alone, that’s not going to actually fix things long-term.

Permitting abusive practices by companies, especially landlords, employers, and financial institutions, will only result in that $1,000 (or whatever) getting immediately taken through various fees and rate hikes.

Edited by wisewillow on Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:19:23 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285528: Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:20:45 AM

Reading is hard: I just said it's not as simple as giving everyone $1000 per month.

UBI as a supplement to existing economic programs is an interesting idea but doesn't inherently solve the problems facing our nation's poor. For UBI to be properly effective, it would need to provide enough to live on for anyone relying on it: a "living income", as it were. Then you would only need a job if you want more stuff than your basic allotment. Note that, properly implemented, the amount would be variable and keyed to the actual cost of living, so that if companies tried to hike prices to soak people, UBI would go up to match.

This is very much a utopian concept at present. We aren't nearly at the level of productivity where having a job can be completely optional.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2019 at 2:25:28 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#285529: Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:27:10 AM

There’s no need to be condescending.

Another way to look at it is as an alternative to numerous other steps that would have to be taken to guarantee the above...

...You can struggle for every single law to improve working conditions, pay, and support for the poor; or you can do away with that and give everyone what they need up front. Obviously it's not quite that simple, but this illustrates why it's so attractive to many.

It doesn’t matter if your income is UBI or from working as a teacher; if the laws regarding housing, employment, and financial institutions aren’t changed, consumers can still be systemically abused and unfairly deprived of that income.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285530: Jul 22nd 2019 at 11:28:57 AM

You're right, of course, but as I said it depends on where you place UBI on the scale of a living wage. If it's 20%, people need that extra 80% from somewhere, which would be a job or welfare in some form. If it's a job, they need protections against labor exploitation. Minimum wage, however, doesn't need to be as high because it's adding to, not replacing, your UBI.

I am against the cheap, sound-bite version of UBI wherein a politician promises 10 grand a year in everyone's pocket without saying where it would come from, how it would be paid out, what effect it would have on other laws, and so on.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2019 at 2:34:41 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#285531: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:15:55 PM

UBI is an important supplement but it alone isn't going to end poverty or anything. It will however make life a lot easier for those who can't work or don't want to work for whatever reasons (e.g. people who have certain disabilities, stay-at-home parents, freelancers with an irregular income, for which "traditional" employment would not necessarily benefit their lives), when combined with other poverty programs to make sure they get whatever help they need.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 22nd 2019 at 3:16:46 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#285532: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:42:47 PM

I absolutely refuse to accept that being a woman is a downside, that's the kind of nonsense that is only true if people believe it.

That seems like a strange thing to say. Unless you took "downside" to be referring to something like women inherently being less capable of leading instead of just an acknowledgement that many people think and vote accordingly.

I don't really see it as different as pointing at the more than a few people will side-eye voting for a black (or Hispanic, or just any none white person). It's not saying POC are inherently less capable, it's an acknowledgement of how many people see it.

And I also don't think that's supposed to be interpreted as saying any of these groups shouldn't still run or that perception can't be over come, but it obviously still exists.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#285533: Jul 22nd 2019 at 1:23:13 PM

Something amusing about the CNN debate. The candidates were randomized to an extent, but each night was assigned candidates from three tiers; the lowest qualifiers (the ones you can't keep track of), the middle group (Buttegieg, Booker, etc) and the top four. So no matter what, each night would have an even mix from each tier.

CNN assigned the lowest qualifiers first, then the middle group, then took a break to analyze the line-up. At the time, the debates were looking like Night One would be all the relatively moderate candidates and the panelists were discussing what that would mean and how the night would probably play out.

Then they got to the top four and Sanders and Warren got on Night One. The CNN panelists were like, "Oh. Well, ignore everything we've been saying for the last 15 minutes then!"

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#285534: Jul 22nd 2019 at 1:31:38 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, I've talked to people who think that a woman simply isn't the right fit for being the President regardless of qualifications. Sometimes it's overt sexism, other times it's more nuanced (e.g. "Would the leader of Iran respect a female President?" sort of theorizing), but the bottom line is that, for a number of voters, lacking a Y chromosome is seen as a disqualifying attribute.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285535: Jul 22nd 2019 at 4:32:44 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/07/22/day-914/

    Day 914: An unindicted co-conspirator 
1/ The Trump administration plans to use a fast-track deportation process to bypass immigration judges in order to quickly deport undocumented immigrants who have illegally entered the U.S. within the past two years. Previously, the policy for "expedited removal" had been limited to migrants caught within 100 miles of the U.S. border who had been in the country for less than two weeks. The Department of Homeland Security defended the shift, saying the new plan will ease the backlogged immigration courts by allowing ICE to deport unauthorized immigrants without placing them in "timeconsuming removal proceedings." Expedited removals will take effect immediately. (Washington Post / CBS News / New York Times)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-gets-expanded-power-to-swiftly-deport-more-undocumented-immigrants/

Trump wants to meet with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer "ASAP" to discuss conditions at the U.S.-Mexico border after Schumer took a tour of migrant detention facilities and called them "inhumane." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-he-wants-to-meet-with-schumer-asap-on-conditions-at-the-border/2019/07/22/ff60f84c-ac68-11e9-bc5c-e73b603e7f38_story.html?utm_term=.b41b89f0f2dd

2/ House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler said there is "very substantial evidence" in Robert Mueller's report that Trump is "guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors." House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff added that it was "clear" that the Justice Department feels bound by an Office of Legal Counsel opinion that prevents indicting a sitting president, alleging that Trump "is an essentially unindicted co-conspirator." The House Judiciary Committee would be in charge of leading impeachment proceedings if the House decided to move forward with articles of impeachment. Mueller is scheduled to testify on July 24th in front of both the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees in back-to-back public hearings, where he will answer questions about the contents of his report and his 22-month-long investigation. (CNN / Politico / Washington Post)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/21/politics/mueller-investigation-nadler-says-evidence-trump-guilty-high-crimes-misdemeanors/index.html

3/ Trump doesn't think Mueller should be allowed to testify before Congress about his ties to Russia and possible obstruction of justice. Trump tweeted that "Mueller should not be given another bite at the apple," because "in the end it will be bad for him." Trump also complained that the "phony Democrats" in Congress "have done nothing but waste time on this ridiculous Witch Hunt," and again called for investigations into Hillary Clinton instead of himself and his campaign. (Washington Post / The Independent / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/22/trump-mueller-testimony-1424608

Inside the preparations for Mueller's testimony. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/22/robert-mueller-testimony-1424333

19 questions for Mueller ahead of his congressional testimony. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/22/us/politics/mueller-testimony-questions.html

4/ Mueller will offer his entire 448-page report as his official statement when he testifies Wednesday before the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees. Justice Department officials have reportedly told Mueller that the department expects him to limit his congressional testimony to the public findings in his report, arguing that anything outside the report is covered by "presidential privilege" that hasn't been waived. Mueller will have a brief opening statement, which hasn't been seen by the Justice Department. (NBC News / Politico / CNN)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/mueller-will-make-full-report-his-official-statement-congress-committees-n1032531

5/ Trump's campaign and the Republican National Committee have paid more than $600,000 in legal fees to the law firm that represents Hope Hicks. The House Judiciary Committee is reexamining the truthfulness of Hicks's mid-June testimony after unsealed court documents revealed that she was in close contact with Michael Cohen as he was negotiating a hush money payment with Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged affair with Trump. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/19/politics/donald-trump-hope-hicks-legal-fees/

📌 Day 911: The House Judiciary Committee asked Hope Hicks to clarify her congressional testimony after newly unsealed documents showed "apparent inconsistencies." The documents reveal that Hicks spoke on the phone with Trump and Michael Cohen about Stormy Daniels and the Trump campaign's attempt to stop Daniels from going public with the allegations about an affair with Trump. Hicks originally stated that she "had no knowledge of Stormy Daniels other than to say she was going to be mentioned in the story." Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler said the new documents "raises substantial questions about the accuracy" of Hicks' original statements. (CNN / NBC News / Politico / Vox)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/house-dems-demand-answers-hope-hicks-over-apparent-inconsistencies-her-n1031716

6/ A federal judge blocked congressional subpoenas for Trump Organization financial records in a lawsuit over whether Trump is violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution. Democrats sent 37 subpoenas earlier this month seeking financial information about Mar-a-Lago, the Trump International Hotel, Trump Tower and other Trump properties. The subpoenas had a due date of July 29th. Judge Emmet Sullivan made the decision after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit said it should hear the case. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/19/politics/emoluments-subpoenas/

The Trump National Doral is one of the finalists to host the G7 summit next year. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/trump-national-doral-g7-site-2020-252ae9ee-aafc-444a-a8e7-fa041a30f0aa.html

poll/ 59% of Americans disagree with Trump that the four Democratic congresswomen of color should "go back" to their countries, while 40% agree with Trump's comment. (CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-disagree-with-trumps-go-back-tweets-cbs-news-poll/

poll/ 52% of Americans disapprove of the job Trump is doing as president; 44% approve. (NPR)

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats

poll/ 54% of voters in 11 southern states either "strongly approve" or "somewhat approve" of the way Trump's handling his job – up from 52% approval from September of last year. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/nbc-news-poll-south-voters-support-trump-grows-residents-see-n1031851

study/ 45% of the Fortune 500 companies in the U.S. were founded by immigrants and their children. The same study also found that that number is growing, despite claims that immigration leads to lower wages and fewer jobs for American citizens. The Fortune 500 companies examined in the study brought in a combined $1.6 trillion in annual revenue last year, and employed 13.5 million people. On average, the companies founded by immigrants also employed 11% more people than the Fortune 500 companies with non-immigrant founders. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/immigrants-founders-fortune-500-companies-7e883b5a-1b76-462c-83b5-be68e2e9cae4.html

    Notables 
The White House and congressional negotiators reached a two-year budget deal that would raise the spending cap by $320 billion and suspend the debt ceiling until after the next presidential election. The House must approve the agreement before members leave July 26th for a six-week recess. The Senate, meanwhile, can put vote on it next week. The measure will also need Trump's signature and he didn't explicitly say he'll sign it, but called it a "real compromise." (Washington Post / New York Times / Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/22/white-house-congress-budget-deal-1425192

Trump "offered to personally vouch" for rapper A$AP Rocky's bail. Trump tweeted that during "a very good call" with Prime Minister Stefan Lofven, he "assured him that A$AP was not a flight risk." The artist has been in custody since early this month over an alleged fight. Trump became involved after Kim Kardashian West contacted Jared Kushner. (Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/ddca1331200e4408ad3d83797b90b4b7

A Republican political organization in Illinois posted and then deleted a movie-style poster depicting the four congresswomen of color who have been attacked by Trump as "The Jihad Squad." The poster included the slogan, "Political Jihad Is Their Game," and depicted Rep. Ayanna Pressley aiming a gun with a smile on her face. (Chicago Tribune / NBC News)

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-illinois-republicans-jihad-squad-post-20190721-ffwvxkiiyzhyxg72mdjjqkcgmu-story.html

A Louisiana police officer posted on Facebook that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez "needs a round." Charlie Rispoli was replying to a post by a satirical website with the headline "Ocasio-Cortez on the Budget: 'We Pay Soldiers Too Much.'" Officials in the city where the officer works condemned his comment, but said they weren't sure it constituted a threat. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/us/charlie-rispoli-gretna-police.html

Stephen Miller defended Trump's tweets and campaign rally where the crowd chanted "send her back." Miller called labeling Trump's behavior "racist" a tactic "deployed by the left" used to "silence and punish and suppress people they disagree with." (Washington Post / USA Today)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/21/chris-wallace-stephen-miller-trump-racism/1790299001/

Trump claimed that he could easily "wipe" Afghanistan "off the face of the earth," but doesn't "want to go that route" because he'd have to "kill 10 million people." (Daily Beast / Vox)

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/7/22/20704248/trump-afghanistan-10-days-war

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#285538: Jul 22nd 2019 at 5:41:07 PM

Close to 90K children dropped from Missouri Medicaid program

Thanks Missouri!

"Close to 90,000 children and 23,000 adults have been dropped from Missouri's Medicaid health insurance program in the past year.

House Democratic Minority Leader Crystal Quade in response is calling for a legislative investigation.

Quade on Sunday publicly released a letter she wrote to Republican House Speaker Elijah Haahr. In the letter, she asked him to task a committee of lawmakers with investigating the cause of the decline.

Haahr didn't immediately comment Monday.

Quade says the drop doesn't appear to be caused by an improving economy. She says if that were the case, Missouri would have also seen a similar drop in the number of people receiving food stamps.

An Associated Press request for comment to the Department of Social Services, which oversees Medicaid, was not immediately returned Monday."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#285539: Jul 22nd 2019 at 5:58:44 PM

Cop in Louisiana fired after suggesting in Facebook post A.O.C should be shot.

What's that, you say? Tangible f*cking consequences for a police officer making inciting threats of violence towards a duly elected Congresswoman?!

That just made my f*cking day!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285540: Jul 22nd 2019 at 6:01:53 PM

he'll be rehired in another position elsewhere,if you know what I mean (and it does happen)

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285541: Jul 22nd 2019 at 6:02:21 PM

Yeah, another city, or perhaps a private firm of some sort.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285542: Jul 22nd 2019 at 6:30:45 PM

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up on WH staff somehow.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285543: Jul 22nd 2019 at 6:48:46 PM

I'm confused, Missouri, what exacly do you think the mystery is other than the Republicans want to Kill the Poor.

My wife was dropped from Medicaid because they want her to die.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#285544: Jul 22nd 2019 at 7:18:52 PM

The R's have been doing a bang-up job of saying the quiet parts loud lately, so maybe she's hoping Haahr will do that? Not that our reps really care what we think or what we want.

I do have fun sending spiteful emails to my state senate rep, though. I'm pretty sure he has me going directly to spam at this point, but it's cathartic.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#285545: Jul 22nd 2019 at 7:44:42 PM

My knee-jerk reaction to Republicans making Kill the Poor policies:

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#285546: Jul 22nd 2019 at 7:51:17 PM

[up]The rich are high in cholesterol and will give you cavities.

Leviticus 19:34
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#285547: Jul 22nd 2019 at 7:55:30 PM

Make sure you eat the rich in moderation and balance your diet with some Greens.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285548: Jul 22nd 2019 at 8:02:15 PM

If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em.

i'm tired, my friend
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285549: Jul 22nd 2019 at 8:03:42 PM

If you can't beat them, their probably not going to give you the chance to eat them either.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#285550: Jul 22nd 2019 at 8:04:39 PM

I wonder if yet another reason why the Rs are acting so brazen and extreme is because of the dismal senate projections for 2020 and 2022. Basically, Torch the Franchise and Run, but for politics.

Do not obey in advance.

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