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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285451: Jul 21st 2019 at 10:48:03 AM

Pence would inherit an unstable mob who just want another guy like Trump,also Trump would undermine him continually once he's out of the White House.I think Pence would be a little better but overall he would be just as ineffective as Trump was

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#285452: Jul 21st 2019 at 10:59:08 AM

Pence would also inherit the issue of Trump’s crimes, he could either pardon Trump and face the same backlash Ford did or he could let Trump go to jail and have Trump and his mob turn on him.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#285453: Jul 21st 2019 at 11:07:49 AM

[up]Wouldn't the latter scenario be for the better, as it would fracture the Republican base?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285454: Jul 21st 2019 at 12:10:28 PM

I don't think Pence actually appeals to evangelicals as much as Trump.

Which says some very interesting things.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#285455: Jul 21st 2019 at 12:56:16 PM

Anyone who thinks Pence would be a quiet and effective President hasn't seen any clips from his days as a virulently anti-anyone-not-a-rich-white-cishet-male talk radio host.

The dude self-described as 'Rush Limbaugh on decaf'... Which is not inaccurate, but more accurate would be 'Rush Limbaugh, except stating all the insane shit he spouts more calmly, as if its perfectly reasonable'. Which is arguably scarier and more insane than actual Rush Limbaugh.

Edited by Robrecht on Jul 21st 2019 at 9:58:54 PM

Angry gets shit done.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#285456: Jul 21st 2019 at 1:32:47 PM

I got a hypothetical question for you all. On the assumption that the Democrats win in 2020, should Pelosi push for impeachment in the lame duck session?

This is assuming that Trump doesn't try to pull any shenanigans about a rigged vote should he lose. If he did, impeachment would be justified on that threat alone.

Some might call it poor sportsmanship to effectively kick Trump when he is down. But I really think the public need to see him "in the dock" so to speak, and for the good of the overall body politic we need the Republicans to come more to the centre - and giving them this opportunity to publicly sever ties might allow them to do that.

It may also neuter his threat when he is out of office. Trump ain't gonna go gladly into that good night. He'll probably still be holding rallies and of course tweeting, even while fighting all the charges that are currently on hold whilst he holds the presidency.

What do you all think? Impeach even if the Dems win in 2020, or just forget about it and concentrate on the future?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285457: Jul 21st 2019 at 1:37:57 PM

Impreachment talk got so heated last time a mod had to step in.

Bear that in mind,my opnion is that impeachment too risky and could backfire,and the election is next year,so if they vote him in that time impeachment is not required,it should be a last resort

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285458: Jul 21st 2019 at 1:55:24 PM

I got a hypothetical question for you all. On the assumption that the Democrats win in 2020, should Pelosi push for impeachment in the lame duck session?

At that point he'll be out of office in a couple months whether he wants to be or not anyway, so there wouldn't really be any point.

If anything, it'd score Pelosi negative points for doing it at such a time.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285459: Jul 21st 2019 at 2:17:26 PM

At that point, it's better just to arrest Trump for his crimes in office.

The immunity to prosecution doesn't exist post-Presidency as far as I can tell.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#285460: Jul 21st 2019 at 2:36:28 PM

The main benefit to getting rid of Trump is that it would require Republican votes. If such a thing happened, the Trumplicans would turn on Pence like the rabid dogs that they are.

The rest of us would get to Pass the Popcorn.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#285461: Jul 21st 2019 at 3:26:59 PM

Yeah the only reason for a post-election impeachment would be Trump trying to set the place on fire on his way out, there are several nightmare scenarios of what he could try and do on his way out, but if he’s actually not trying them then he can be left alone.

Edited by Silasw on Jul 21st 2019 at 10:28:20 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#285462: Jul 21st 2019 at 3:49:13 PM

Winning the House in 2018 significantly limits the damage Trump can do on his way out in 2020; there won't be any North Carolina/Wisconsin-like shenanigans with blatantly unreasonable laws being passed.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#285463: Jul 21st 2019 at 4:08:32 PM

Oh laws being passed was never risk, the risk is Trump going on Twitter and either trying to start a war (unlikely to work, others nations aren’t stupid) or offering to pardon people if they commit specific crimes for him (he wouldn’t even have to follow though on the pardons for the damage to be done).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#285465: Jul 21st 2019 at 4:39:40 PM

Pence is a true believer, which if anything means he would be worse than Trump.

Watch me destroying my country
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285466: Jul 21st 2019 at 5:11:48 PM

I'd say that in terms of policy, Pence would be better on the foreign front (not constantly insulting foreign leaders, holding to the post-War consensus, no trade war) but as bad or worse domestically.

However, as others have said, President Pence would be a seat-warmer. His political capital would be limited at best, he wouldn't have Trump's cult behind him, and he'd be viewed as toxic by the GOP due to be linked to a Trump (in this scenario, they've turned on him). And President Pence still has to contend with a surging Democratic party that controls the House.

[down][tup]

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jul 21st 2019 at 10:04:55 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285467: Jul 21st 2019 at 5:37:04 PM

Trump is also a true believer. His racism is sincere and all-consuming.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#285468: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:23:24 PM

If Pence becomes an accidental president, I'm wondering what the scoreboard is so far to see if this is a good idea:

  • Definitely better than their president: Coolidge, Roosevelt
  • Definitely worse than their president: Andrew Johnson, Truman(though it's very difficult to compete with FDR), Ford(no offense, but Watergate aside Nixon accomplished more even if he's a dick)
  • Not really applicable: Tyler(Harrison lived what, 2.8% of his planned term), Arthur(Harrison and Garfield didn't live the year, Garfield was incapacitated four months in)
  • Are these bois better or worse than their president: Fillmore, LBJ

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Jul 22nd 2019 at 2:25:06 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285469: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:24:49 PM

>Trump is also a true believer. His racism is sincere and all-consuming.

I don't think so, I studied Trump before he became president. In a way, the man who campaigned for president isn't the man I saw. I saw someone who wasn't exactly the most ethical of people, (understatement if there ever was one). He used people and said whatever it was that they wanted to hear to get what he wanted.

There is a story I remember from someone I knew who owned a construction business in New York, he had made the decision to get out of the construction buisness but needed some time to figure out what he was going to do afterwards. Trump called him with something that needed to be built, he said that he would do it a a certain price and terms. Trump threw the book at him, calling him all sorts of things and what not. In the story as my friend tells it, he just smiled and told Trump that the terms that he set were what he would do the work for. Trump told him he'd never work in New York again and hung up. A few minutes later Trump called back and when my friend wasn't moved, agreed to the terms he had set for building the building.

Trump is the sort of person for whom words don't mean anything but to get him what he wants. If racism is what gets him what he wants, then he'll use that. If racism keeps him on top, he'll use that. However, it's not because he's a racist, it's because he's a power hungry asshole who is good at playing the games of power.

So no, I don't believe that Trump is sincerely racist. If he felt he could get and maintain his power through anti-racism he would do it. Not because he would be anti-racism, but because he wants power. It's an important difference.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#285470: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:27:04 PM

I think he's sincerely racist in the sense that he's such an utter narcissist that he'll latch onto any ideology that gives him further justification to consider himself superior.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285471: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:27:09 PM

No, Trump is genuinely pretty racist. He has been since the Seventies.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285472: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:29:27 PM

[up][up][up]But that's wrong, you troper

1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump’s Castle, accused another one of Trump’s businesses of discrimination. “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” Brown said. “It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back.”
1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speech accusing countries like Japan of “stripping the United States of economic dignity.” This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the “Central Park Five” — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!” The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”
1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
1993: In congressional testimony, Trump said that some Native American reservations operating casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”
2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a “record of criminal activity [that] is well documented.”
2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. “You’re an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything,” Trump said on the show. “At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’”
2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he “wasn’t particularly happy” with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering “an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world.”
2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the “Ground Zero Mosque” — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it “insensitive,” and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, “Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff.”
2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama’s birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a ”carnival barker.” (The research has found a strong correlation between “birtherism,” as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, “I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?”

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 21st 2019 at 10:30:11 AM

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285473: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:31:17 PM

Yeah, Trump has a long history of genuinely bigoted actions and words.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#285474: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:38:00 PM

Basically power hungry and racist.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285475: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:51:38 PM

Nixon is a better example of non-racist people who do really racist actions for political gain.

I wonder which did more damage to America racially.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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