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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#285401: Jul 20th 2019 at 1:28:34 PM

The real problem with removing the filibuster is that any policy attempting to do so would be filibustered hard.

Leviticus 19:34
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#285402: Jul 20th 2019 at 1:31:59 PM

Nah, that's actually not so. The steps for a nuclear option are:

  • Push the vote to the point where someone has to begin a talking filibuster.
  • Raise a point of order against the person talking. The presiding officer will dismiss it because it's not against the rules to talk-filibuster.
  • Use your majority to override the presiding officer and declare the point of order valid, thus shutting up the talking person.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285403: Jul 20th 2019 at 1:34:36 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/send-her-back-battle-will-define-us-forever/594307/

None of this is new but it's a nice discussion about how Trump's racism is the heart of his appeal and attempts to hide it are now completely hollow.

So it's a fight between the heart of the country's past with its future.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285404: Jul 20th 2019 at 3:55:33 PM

[up]I lost interest right around the part the article hops on the "Dems can't do anything right" bandwagon.

Seriously, is there any non-right-wing mainstream media outlet not trying to convince its audience that both sides are terrible?

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285405: Jul 20th 2019 at 3:59:47 PM

[up]Like I said, it seems to be “in” these days.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#285406: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:03:58 PM

At best, any “mainstream” media is run by the white moderatesTM, and I think there’s not more that needs to be said about them that hasn’t been said here already.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Jul 20th 2019 at 7:07:07 AM

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285407: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:10:27 PM

[up]Left leaning sources also seem prone to this.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285408: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:14:24 PM

The idea that criticizing the Democrats is leaning into White Moderation versus outrage at not doing more against Trump is....well it reads like the GOP wrote it.

You can be genuinely disgusted at your "own side" for not doing more.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 20th 2019 at 4:15:30 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#285409: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:21:12 PM

Sorry, guess I went a little No True Scotsman there.

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PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285410: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:26:51 PM

[up][up]The people railing against Dems for not doing more are decidedly not moderate, but to straight up say that "they don't represent their voters" is absolute horseshit.

Between this and that awful NBC article that was posted in the race thread (I think, they kinda blend together lately), it honestly feels like the mainstream media is dying to give us four more years of Trump.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 20th 2019 at 7:28:29 AM

i'm tired, my friend
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#285411: Jul 20th 2019 at 4:33:54 PM

Admittedly, I’ve been a bit cross with the “left-leaning media” since seeing thisnote  earlier this week, though to be fair, the problem doesn’t seem to extend past this one writer within NPR.

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RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#285412: Jul 20th 2019 at 7:06:58 PM

Let's just say either Trump gets impeached/resigns or dies in office. Which do you think is the lesser of two evils-President Trump, or President Pence?

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#285413: Jul 20th 2019 at 7:09:09 PM

Right now, Pence. The main problem is McConnell right now, but Pence is less likely to damage the country through outright Zaphod Beeblebrox antics.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285414: Jul 20th 2019 at 7:09:18 PM

Hard to say, if I'm honest.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285415: Jul 20th 2019 at 7:43:13 PM

Trump has gone after every group that Pence would go after. People keep saying that a religious fanatic in office would be terrible (and would be) but we know what Pence running a government was like. We had Indiana under his Governorship.

And it was bad.

But Trump is his own thing that makes me fear for everyone much much worse.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#285416: Jul 20th 2019 at 8:23:31 PM

Pence is a lesser evil to Trump. To put it one way, Pence might nuke somebody, but Trump would nuke somebody and hit the wrong nation.

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285417: Jul 20th 2019 at 8:41:31 PM

And it's not like Pence is harmless or anything in his current position as VP anyway. He's still arguably getting everything he wants from this administration. And by that I mean "shitting on LGBTQ people".

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#285418: Jul 21st 2019 at 12:21:58 AM

Two things that inform my opinion:

  • I believe that the President after Trump is going to have to to spend a good chunk of time cleaning up Trump's mess- simply as a matter of getting the government into usable condition again. So at this point, if Pence took over, clean up duty would probably be the only thing he can reasonably do before the election.
  • A Pence that's tarnished by association with Trump, but doesn't have his cult of personality, and spent time in the White House not accomplishing anything particularly visible is gonna be easier for the Dem nominee to beat than Trump would be.

So, yes, I believe Pence is the lesser of two evils.

Edited by Gilphon on Jul 21st 2019 at 3:22:27 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#285419: Jul 21st 2019 at 1:34:14 AM

Me, I worry that Pence may turn out to be more competent and less lightning rod than Trump and neither is a good thing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285420: Jul 21st 2019 at 1:48:06 AM

Yeah, I'm not too keen on Pence getting into office.

Never say "It can't get any worse".

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Imca (Veteran)
#285421: Jul 21st 2019 at 2:23:23 AM

I would argue that any thing Pence wants he can already get, we have all seen how influencable Trump is.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#285422: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:18:35 AM

The Atlantic is quintessentially a white moderate publication. They flitted with being center-left when they had Ta-Nehisi Coates write some articles for them, but the publication on the whole is infuriatingly centrist.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285423: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:20:50 AM

One issue I have with their articles is that they read more like op-eds in other publications.

An op-ed makes for an interesting read sometimes, but I wouldn't use it as an actual source or something.

[up][up]Like, I'd wager that the LGBTQ military ban wasn't something Trump came up with on his own.

Edited by M84 on Jul 21st 2019 at 10:21:43 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#285424: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:27:49 AM

[up] Why not? Being influenceable does in no way absolve him or exclude that he shares those ideals.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285425: Jul 21st 2019 at 7:28:48 AM

[up]Mainly because it's not his top priority when it comes to bigotry. He'd normally be all about shitting on brown people. I wouldn't be surprised if the LGBTQ ban was due to Pence's influence.

Edited by M84 on Jul 21st 2019 at 10:29:57 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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