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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285226: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:33:28 AM

So since Senator Warren was brought up, I decided to peruse the news and I noticed this from a few days ago. I don't think it was brought up in the thread yet.

Warren criticizes powerful businesses. She also worked for them.

It's a clickbaity as hell title, but the article itself is basically a reprint of a Washington Post article from a few days ago:

Dow Breast Implant Case Spotlights Elizabeth Warren's Work Helping Big Corporations Navigate Bankruptcies

When Dow Corning faced thousands of lawsuits in the 1990s from women saying they'd become sick from the company's silicone gel breast implants, its parent firm, Dow Chemical, turned to one of the country's leading experts in corporate bankruptcies: Professor Elizabeth Warren.

Warren, now a Democratic presidential candidate, has never publicly discussed her role in the case. Her campaign said she was "a consultant to ensure adequate compensation for women who claimed injury" from the implants and that a $2.3 billion fund for the women was started "thanks in part to Elizabeth's efforts."

But participants on both sides of the matter say that description mischaracterizes Warren's work, in which she advised a company intent on limiting payments to the women.

"She was on the wrong side of the table," said Sybil Goldrich, who co-founded a support group for women with implants and battled the companies for years. Goldrich said Dow Corning and its parent "used every trick in the book" to limit the size of payouts to women. The companies, she added, "were not easy to deal with at all."

The article goes on to describe the case in more detail and touches on the rest of Warren's career as a bankruptcy lawyer.

The article tries to be fair, but it ends on a note that isn't particularly approving of Warren's involvement.

Warren's work for Dow Chemical has caused her trouble in the past.

When Warren released the 13 cases during her 2012 campaign, the list didn't include her work for Dow Chemical.

That work surfaced when the blog Legal Insurrection posted a court document from an unrelated case where Warren said she'd served in an "advisory capacity" to Dow Chemical "in the early days of the Dow Corning bankruptcy."

Warren initially declined to answer questions about the case in 2012, saying she was bound by attorney-client privilege, according to local news accounts. Her 2012 Senate campaign then offered some additional detail, saying Warren was consulted after Dow Corning went bankrupt.

Shortly after The Post contacted Warren's campaign for comment on this story, a lawyer from Warren's campaign called Goldrich, the breast implant victim advocate, to ask her to make a positive statement about the settlement.

"They asked, 'Could I make a comment about whether the deal was fair? Would I say it was a fair deal? Was it fair?'" said Goldrich, recalling her conversation. "I wouldn't say that."

Two decades after Warren consulted on the case, the matter is ongoing.

The agreement with Dow Corning gave women 15 years to make claims. The deadline for the last claims passed in June.

That last bit is probably why this has resurfaced. That and since the primaries are now well underway, every candidate's past is being dug up.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 12:34:14 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285227: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:35:40 AM

Meh, I am in no way moved by her working for big businesses decades ago. People change and her record speaks for itself.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 18th 2019 at 9:36:00 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#285228: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:42:30 AM

[up]Besides which, having worked for them, she knows pretty much where the skeleton closets can be found, and many of the key-codes. tongue

Nothing educates you faster about how flipping shady businesses can be than having to see the machinery from inside and up close.

If that doesn't get your moral compass going, nothing will.

So, yeah; it's not a disqualification to have seen it and gone "well, this needs to change..." to then roll up your sleeves.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#285229: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:42:48 AM

I saw something a while back where Warren herself made it very clear that at some point she had a full-on Heel Realization leading to a Heel–Face Turn. I’ll see if I can dig it up...

Edit: Found it. Not as direct an account as I recalled, but it still gets the point across.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Jul 18th 2019 at 12:46:02 PM

My musician page
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285230: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:44:22 AM

Honestly, that bit with the campaign team fishing for compliments on Warren's work on this case, followed by the advocate saying they couldn't say it was fair, was the part that made me raise my eyebrow.

[up][up]TBF, she didn't just see it in action. She was an active participant in that machine and made good money out of it.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 12:50:10 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#285231: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:56:03 AM

[up]So, what?

It beats digging in there like a tick of a Trump.

It's not illegal to wake up to what you've been involved in after years in what everybody around you assured you was a decent, upstanding and socially acceptable job. And, having that experience in representative power beats it not having a clue at all about exactly how corporations get away with shit while telling everybody the smell of shit is just the roses.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jul 18th 2019 at 5:59:35 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285232: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:56:53 AM

[up]It's a bit different considering she spent those years helping corporations get away with that shit, and being well compensated for it.

And anyway, the more troubling bit to me wasn't so much the work on this case as it was her attempts to downplay or hide it in the years that followed. That's what the last bit of that article covers.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:00:03 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#285233: Jul 18th 2019 at 9:59:56 AM

So we're getting back to the contention of how much decades old things in a person's past should matter for considering them now?

Well, I wouldn't hold that against Warren, but I do think it's fair to at least mention it since everyone has their far-off past brought up.

Either way, everyone will have a few black marks, that fact alone shouldn't be disqualifying in itself.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 18th 2019 at 12:16:15 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285234: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:00:55 AM

[up]Again, to me, it's less about the black marks in her past and more about her current attempts to pretend those marks didn't happen.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#285235: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:01:28 AM

[up]Well, if you really want a pure princess on a unicorn trying to fight the corporate blob monsters...

There's a pile of princess bones under that swamp.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285236: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:03:11 AM

[up]I'm hardly interested in a "perfect" candidate.

I just don't feel like we should ignore this stuff completely. Again, nobody else seems to have noticed that article here.

I just hope for Warren's sake that her team can handle this kind of thing more gracefully in the future. Because I doubt this will be all that crops up in the months to come.

And as LSBK said, while the past isn't the most important thing, it is still something that should be mentioned. It's not like we're ignoring the pasts of the other candidates.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:14:45 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#285237: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:14:00 AM

She was one of the leading bankruptcy experts in the country and she served in that capacity. There’s a difference between serving as a subject-matter expert and directly representing the big company.

Who knows whether this was pre-realization or whether she thought by taking the job she could persuade them to pay more than the absolute bare minimum to the plaintiffs. I think it’s far less concerning or substantive than the objections to other candidates’ records.

Edited by wisewillow on Jul 18th 2019 at 10:14:20 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285238: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:14:18 AM

One thing I'll say is that regardless of whatever skeletons are in Warren's closet, I'm reasonably certain none of them are going to be outright dealbreakers for me. I can't really say the same for the other candidates who don't already have dealbreakers for me.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:18:21 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285239: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:27:58 AM

Even if they are, those skeletons become effectively irrelevant the moment the primaries end. Either she's the candidate and she becomes the alternative to Trump, or she doesn't and she's no an active part of the process, barring cabinet posts.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 18th 2019 at 11:30:42 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285240: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:29:50 AM

[up]Yes, when the primaries end. But they've barely started.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:31:40 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285241: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:30:36 AM

I honestly tend to forget that.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285242: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:31:53 AM

TBH, what's really important to me isn't so much the skeletons themselves but the candidates' and/or their teams' reactions to them being uncovered.

Just look at the way Biden floundered when his own record on busing was brought up in that last debate. Though Harris' walkback afterwards kind of made it less triumphant.

Edited by M84 on Jul 19th 2019 at 1:32:33 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285243: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:51:13 AM

A few stories from https://currentstatus.io/

Scaramucci disinvited from Florida GOP fundraiser for bashing Trump's 'racially charged' attacks – “He suggested the president’s comments were racist and that he was becoming a racist. Our board was infuriated,” the Republican Party chairman in Palm Beach County said.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/18/anthony-scaramucci-florida-gop-fundraiser-1419204

Senate Republicans pray Trump will take budget deal – Trump has balked at previous bipartisan agreements, and hard-line conservatives are sure to pressure the president.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/18/trump-budget-deal-senate-republicans-1418898

House Votes to Raise Federal Minimum Wage to $15 – The House approved a bill to more than double the federal minimum wage of $7.25, a level that has not risen since 2009. Its prospects are dim in the Senate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/us/politics/minimum-wage.html

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 18th 2019 at 11:51:33 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285244: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:52:26 AM

[up] ...Becoming a racist?

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285245: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:57:08 AM

Literally my first thought, too.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#285246: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:58:21 AM

That ship has sailed. What's funny is that Mooch is just catching up to the rest of us.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285247: Jul 18th 2019 at 10:59:40 AM

Some people are just relentlessly and willfully ignorant of racism, presumably with the "go back to your countries" thing it was just too obvious for the Mooch to ignore.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#285248: Jul 18th 2019 at 11:06:05 AM

RE: Turbulent Congressman - that was Henry II, whose comment is the page quote for Rhetorical Question Blunder.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#285249: Jul 18th 2019 at 11:06:21 AM

That's how it often happens with cults. It all seems nice and reasonable until you hit that one thing that makes you go, "Wait, what did he just say?"

Every time a Republican wakes up and smells the Kool-Aid and then is immediately turned on by the party, I get a little tinge of hope for the future of the country.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#285250: Jul 18th 2019 at 11:23:23 AM

Hopefully the Repubs will make themselves enough enemies among the people they themselves empowered that they can't defeat them by recruiting more.


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