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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#284776: Jul 11th 2019 at 6:24:42 AM

[up][up][up][up] To be perfectly frank, I was just thinking I was happy I wasn't hearing as much about it for a while. Independent of the awfulness of this administration, these kinds of stories are part and parcel of those situations.

... so fuck this administration for encouraging these situations.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284777: Jul 11th 2019 at 6:59:41 AM

Trump expected to order citizenship question added to the census What the fuck? I'm getting sick of him just going around the law whenever he doesn't get his way.

Like I said about this topic before: the predominate takeaway from this administration is that just because a rule exists saying the President cannot X, that does not actually mean that he can't. The only true check on his power is Congress's ability to impeach.

The President has a lot of limitations and restrictions written into the Constitution. However, no actual penalties for violating those limitations were written in alongside them. The expectation was that Congress will, without fail, always impeach a President who breaks the rules.

The fundamental flaw there is that it means a Congress friendly to the President's shenanigans (even only half a Congress!) can render the President utterly devoid of his Constitutional restrictions. On paper, Trump cannot add the citizenship question to the census. But who's going to f*cking stop him if he does?

If the answer is "Nobody" then, in practice, Trump absolutely can add the citizenship question to the census. The checks on his power are not actually hard, unbreakable rules; they're bluffs, meant to be obeyed by people already inclined to follow rules.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 11th 2019 at 8:01:08 AM

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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#284778: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:00:48 AM

I mean, the courts could use injunctions and order the responsible Department(s) to stop, which they probably/hopefully will.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#284779: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:03:37 AM

At which point, those Departments will be receiving two conflicting orders from equally legitimate branches of government.

As one of the dudes who refused to testify to the House under Trump's orders put it, "I'm going to follow the one who's paying my checks."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 11th 2019 at 8:04:35 AM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#284780: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:10:21 AM

This brings up a Constitutional question: what power do the courts wield to compel obedience with their decisions? Can the executive branch simply ignore what the Supreme Court says?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#284781: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:17:48 AM

Apparently, yes. "The courts have made their decision. Now let them enforce it."

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#284782: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:31:17 AM

Has the lawsuits against AOC from right-wing Twitter users because she blocked them been discussed here?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#284783: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:32:46 AM

[up]Not here, no.

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wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284784: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:01:20 AM

That executive order is blatantly unlawful. Prediction: Pelosi will do nothing.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#284785: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:04:31 AM

Maybe wait until she confirms they won't do anything before getting angry?

Edited by M84 on Jul 11th 2019 at 11:04:49 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#284786: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:05:00 AM

What can Pelosi do to actually stop Trump if the courts and the bureaucracy won't? And don't say impeachment, because that won't do a thing and we all know it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#284787: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:06:02 AM

Actually, yeah, that too. The courts haven't even made a ruling on this bullshit yet either.

It's premature to start going on a "Pelosi sucks" tirade.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#284788: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:12:43 AM

Taking it to court is the most logical and effective solution. Whether Pelosi is the one to do it or she leaves it to some other party is the question.

A judge dismissed an earlier case brought by the House because they didn't have standing as only half of Congress. They might apply the same logic.

On the other hand since the House is the chamber directly affected by the census, Pelosi might have a stronger case should she bring it.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#284789: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:12:56 AM

It's never too early to go into a "THIS PERSON BAD!!!!!" tirade. "THIS PERSON BAD!!!!!" tirades is what politics is all about.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#284790: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:30:00 AM

Trump has given blatantly unlawful orders before, the result? Nothing.

He lacks the lawful ability to do that so his orders will be meaningless, we know for a fact that when given illegal orders his aides have just never followed them and waited for Trump to forget about it.

There is no reason to believe his order will be efficacious.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 11th 2019 at 8:30:44 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#284791: Jul 11th 2019 at 8:31:04 AM

True, the court orders have so far been obeyed. He had to modify the travel ban, as an early example.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#284792: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:05:47 AM

The big takeaway from this administration is that the President has WAY more power than we thought they did, because they can effectively do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences as long as they have enough people protecting them.

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#284793: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:25:53 AM

>The big takeaway from this administration is that the President has WAY more power than we thought they did, because they can effectively do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences as long as they have enough people protecting them.

...

We've known that for years, this isn't exactly a sudden thing that presidents have too much power.

One of my rules that I think people should remember is that you never give a good man power because an evil one will follow him.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#284794: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:29:44 AM

you never give a good man unchecked power because an evil one will follow him.
FTFY.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#284795: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:30:51 AM

Well, more like the president plus congress. Congress nominally has the power to stop him, but if it is dominated by the president's party, good like getting past party-politics.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284796: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:31:57 AM

That sounds uncomfortably both-sidery. If a Democratic President was putting children in concentration camps, I have little doubt Pelosi and Schumer would support impeachment.

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Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#284797: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:36:39 AM

>If a Democratic President was putting children in concentration camps, I have little doubt Pelosi and Schumer would support impeachment.

I do. Trump isn't the one who started the camps or the problem that causes the Camps to exist. Consider for a moment if RBG died, the republican President nominanted the next Scalia, and the democrats in the Senate could put it off to the next election by refusing to vote. They would do it, even those they excoriated the Republicans for the same.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#284798: Jul 11th 2019 at 9:43:34 AM

Trump isn't the one who started the policy of housing unaccompanied minors in government facilities. But he is the one who started the campaign of mass child-separation that has resulted in the hugely overcrowded concentration camps.

So. Yes. He did, in fact, start the camps.

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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#284799: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:09:43 AM

[up][up]The difference being you claim a hypothetical to justify bothsidering about a thing one side did.

'They would do it too' is one of the chief arguments of those trying to explain away the frankly staggering level on obstruction and constitutional sabotage employed by the GOP.

I do not care about hypotheticals.

The GOP stole a SCOTUS seat

The GOP put a rapist on another.

They put children in Concentration Camps as a terror tactic.

Claiming 'both sides bad' is frankly nothing but moral cowardice at this point.

Edited by 3of4 on Jul 11th 2019 at 7:18:17 PM

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Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#284800: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:15:58 AM

And while I could possibly believe it if we had Chuck Schumer on record saying he'd do just that, unless a citation is provided then that's just speculation to justify bothsiderism.


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