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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#284626: Jul 9th 2019 at 11:39:09 AM

[up][up] Exactly what I was going for. I didn't intend to confuse people.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284627: Jul 9th 2019 at 11:45:24 AM

[up]

I got the reference, but felt that sentiment should also be a sincere one, given what happened in 2016.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#284628: Jul 9th 2019 at 11:48:14 AM

I've heard speculation that the Russians leaked ambassador thing,though I think they're becoming a bit of a scapegoat lately

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284629: Jul 9th 2019 at 11:56:07 AM

Well this article soured me a bit on Harris - apparently she's walked back her comments on busing, saying that it should be a tool for local districts to use instead of being Federally-mandated - which makes her outrage at the debate seem a lot more Machiavellian in nature.

The article points out that, even in the '70s, local support for busing in Biden's state was in single-digits for white and black residents, and support for it is even lower now.

Richard Kahlenberg of the Century Foundation is one of the country’s leading experts on all this and has worked with numerous school districts on integration plans. Over the weekend he shared with me two reports that I commend to you. The first, from this April, is “A Bold Agenda for School Integration.” The third section lays out the ways that the federal government can help districts achieve better integration. The second, from 2016, is “School Integration in Practice: Lessons from Nine Districts.” Eden Prairie, Minnesota, for example (it’s outside Minneapolis), redrew its school districts. It was plenty contentious, but it has resulted in increased integration and better test scores.

One thing almost no one is relying on? Busing. “We've learned a tremendous amount about how to integrate schools in a politically feasible manner over the past few decades,” Kahlenberg says. “Virtually no one in the civil rights community advocates mandatory busing; instead, the effort is to provide public school choice with fairness/civil rights guardrails to ensure that choice results in integration.”

Edited by ironballs16 on Jul 9th 2019 at 3:06:19 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#284631: Jul 9th 2019 at 11:57:39 AM

Yeah, Harris will just never feel right for me to support.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#284632: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:02:07 PM

Why am I not surprised.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#284633: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:03:44 PM

How odd. Who is that even supposed to be a play for?

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#284634: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:05:23 PM

What's the controversy around busing again?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#284635: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:09:27 PM

If I'm remembering correctly, it was based on Harris tearing into Biden sitting the first debate because if his stance on busing kids to de-segregated schools?

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#284636: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:11:25 PM

So he wasn't in favor.

I was more wondering in general.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284637: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:17:13 PM

Many white people, including many white Dems, were and still are anti-busing. Because god forbid their children go to a Black school or Black children come to their school. So Harris has apparently chickened out.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284638: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:23:53 PM

[up]

As I mentioned from the article, though, Biden's area was uniformly against it, with even black people not being fond of it for their own areas, and ironically (according to that link) the practice had sometimes led to an increase in segregation.

My main issue with Harris now is that it appears that she was faux-outraged in order to put Biden on the spot, which is... not a great look, in my eyes.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#284639: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:25:26 PM

It's blatant pandering is what it was. Insincere faux-outrage to score easy points against Biden and nothing more.

It almost makes one feel sympathetic to Biden. I don't like feeling that way since I still don't want Biden to be the winner.

Edited by M84 on Jul 10th 2019 at 3:26:56 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284640: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:27:04 PM

Harris' record is pretty much hardline law and order, anti-truancy (to criminal prosecution levels), and siding with private prisons against prisoners.

That was enough to lose her my vote by itself.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#284641: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:43:49 PM

[up][up][up] The general consensus regarding busing making segregation worse is that it was essentially half-assed. The programs weren't continued to the point where good could actually come from them and shot in the foot by people from both sides (as indicated above, it's almost universally unpopular in the richer districts but only mixed in the poorer districts) leading to half-measures that get the worst of all worlds.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#284642: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:47:08 PM

A woman who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter after encouraging her suicidal boyfriend to take his own life through a series of texts messages is taking her appeal to the Supreme Court on first amendment grounds.

A woman who encouraged her suicidal boyfriend in a barrage of text messages to take his own life should have her involuntary manslaughter conviction thrown out because it violated her right to free speech, her lawyers told the nation’s highest court on Monday.

In urging the U.S. Supreme Court to hear her appeal, Michelle Carter’s lawyers called her conviction in Conrad Roy III’s death “unprecedented” and said her case raises crucial questions about whether “words alone” are enough to hold someone responsible for another person’s suicide.

“Michelle Carter did not cause Conrad Roy’s tragic death and should not be held criminally responsible for his suicide,” Daniel Marx, one of her lawyers, said in emailed statement. “This petition focuses on just two of the many flaws in the case against her that raise important federal constitutional issues for the U.S. Supreme Court to decide,” he said.

Carter was jailed in February after Massachusetts’ highest court unanimously upheld her conviction in the death of the then-18-year-old Roy. Carter, now 22, is serving a 15-month sentence.

The court agreed with a judge who found that Carter caused Roy’s death when she told him in a phone call to get back in his truck as it was filling with carbon monoxide and didn’t call Roy’s family or the police.

The phone call wasn’t recorded, but the judge focused on a text message Carter sent a friend two months later in which she said Roy had gotten out of the truck because he was scared and she told him to get back in.

Carter’s lawyers say that’s not enough evidence to prove Carter did that. They also argue there is no evidence he would have lived if she had called for help or that Roy would have listened to her if she had told him to get out of the truck.

Carter’s lawyers said in their Supreme Court petition that the Massachusetts justices acknowledged that not everyone who verbally encourages someone to take their own life should be prosecuted but provided “no guidance to distinguish sympathetic cases of assisted suicide from culpable cases of unlawful killing.”

The Massachusetts high court “imagined a range of conduct from coerced suicide to dignified death, but it offered no clear, meaningful, and constitutional way to determine where a particular case may fall on that spectrum. The deciding factor is the prosecutor’s gut,” they wrote.

Therefore, nothing “would prevent such aggressive prosecutions in all assisted or encouraged suicide cases,” the lawyers wrote.

Carter’s case drew international attention in part because of the thousands of disturbing text messages between Carter and Roy, whose relationship existed almost entirely over the phones.

“You keep pushing it off and say you’ll do it but u never do. It’s always gonna be that way if u don’t take action,” Carter told Roy in one text message.

The case is the focus of a HBO documentary debuting on Tuesday that explores the thorny legal questions, the teen’s twisted relationship and Carter’s own mental health problems.

Prosecutors alleged that Carter pushed Roy to kill himself because she was desperate for attention from her classmates and wanted sympathy as the grieving girlfriend.

Carter’s trial attorney argued that Roy, who had tried to kill himself before, was determined to take his own life and that Carter had actually been trying to help him before going along with his plan.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284643: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:51:43 PM

[up]

Yeah, no, fuck her. Not only did she not report the boyfriend's threats of suicide, she even pushed him into it when he started to falter at the end. That's completely inexcusable. And the First Amendment grounds is absolutely laughable, as the case law is abundantly clear that an incitement to violence is not protected - pretty sure telling him "No you're not Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action" is a pretty blatant example of an incitement to violence.

The last communication he made was at 6:25 PM - they'd been talking about his pending suicide off-and-on since 4:07 AM, so her other excuse of "I didn't think help would come in time" is equally bullshit. Oh, and she's only serving 15 months, which is extraordinarily light given what happened, but anything more severe likely wouldn't have stuck.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jul 9th 2019 at 3:59:41 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#284645: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:05:18 PM

People think free speech is literally "free" speech, as in it's their God given right to say whatever they want and saying otherwise gets them crying cEnSoRsHiP!

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#284646: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:09:55 PM

"I have a though in my head and I moving that into my mouth and right into the open what happen afterward I dont give a shit because I feel happing for babbling" or "I dont give a damn what happen, ergo nothing bad really happen".

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#284647: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:11:20 PM

Welp, Amy Mc Grath is officially the second person I have donated to

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#284648: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:13:54 PM

I mean, the worst free speech advocates essentially think "if there is literally any barrier to my message reaching everyone, or any negative response to my words, then my rights are being infringed."

Which, ironically, means that they essentially think "free speech matters for me, even (especially) if it infringes on other peoples' free speech."

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#284649: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:14:55 PM

[up]A lot of people think world exist in the void and matter nothing, largely because they dont care about what other have to think.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#284650: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:17:02 PM

What I find the most funny is these kind of people defending people like that baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding because of "PRIVATE COMPANY!", but when it comes to bannings on equally private online plattforms, it's suddenly infringing on speech.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

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