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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#284301: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:23:06 AM

So... the big 4th of July jamboree is tomorrow. Who wants to bet Trump's speech will include pot shots at Democrats, Mueller, the Fake News Media, and poll numbers?

I would love to be proven wrong. It would be great if he could somehow get through a speech without bashing anybody and actually give a unifying message. But precedent suggests otherwise. And even if he does stay on script, he'll be back to his old ways almost immediately.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#284302: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:24:17 AM

I have a strong feeling he’ll make another joke about suspending term limits.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284303: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:26:16 AM

Its gonna be what we're all expecting.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284304: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:36:25 AM

If he did, we could run Obama against him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#284305: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:47:17 AM

Saw this on Twitter: actual complaint

Breaking: the Georgia Dept of Driver's Services is violating the Constitution in its treatment of Puerto Ricans. They require Puerto Ricans to undergo extra driver testing & force PR-born applicants to answer trick q's about PR. @southerncenter and @latinojustice are suing.

The plaintiff in our suit moved to Georgia with a valid Puerto Rico license. When he applied for a GA license, he gave DDS his birth certificate, social security card, and PR license. That was in 2017. It's been over 600 days, and he hasn't gotten a license OR his documents back.

Living in rural GA without a driver's license is HARD. Our plaintiff cannot find construction work w/o a license, & taking his infant daughter to doctor’s appointments, doing grocery shopping, having a social life, and much more is nearly impossible.

And lest we forget: driving without a valid license is a criminal offense in Georgia. He would face an initial $500 fine, and up to a year of imprisonment were he to drive without one.

Now for the "interview" questions that DDS is supposed to ask of Puerto Ricans (which bear a disturbing resemblance to the tests applied by segregationists to block voter registration of people of color)...

Some sample questions:

  • "What company is the largest employer in Mayaguez?"
  • "Where is the Caguas Beach?" (trick question: it's an inland city)
  • "The principle baseball stadium in San Juan is named after...?"

DDS has made a habit of seizing Puerto Rican applicants’ identity documents, & often fails to make a decision on their application. Sometimes — as was the case with our named plaintiff — the citizens are detained & arrested.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:47:52 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284306: Jul 3rd 2019 at 8:48:42 AM

I wonder if people realize this will give them the incentive at last to become a state.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#284307: Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:02:49 AM

No way Trump won't turn the events tomorrow into a MAGA rally (with copious public funding), the guy has attacked his opponents with memorial walls as backdrops. Nothing is sacred to him.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#284308: Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:07:53 AM

Apparently, the problem with that particular version of the flag is that it was used by white nationalists and thus has picked up more troubling connotations.

Yes, which is ridiculous.

White supremacists are always going gravitate towards innocuous symbols, rejecting all of them just plays into their hands by making progressives look idiotic and laughable.

Also, I don't like them shafting Betsy Ross.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284309: Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:12:21 AM

There are no contemporary accounts of Betsy Ross being important or designing the flag. Her relatives started the whole thing in 1870.

Elizabeth Griscom Ross Ashburn Claypoole was a hardworking, skilled craftswoman. (She also loved snuff.) Among her creations were hundreds of government and military flags. They were enormously important in the early days in America's history before mass-produced uniforms came into vogue, helping to identify troops and regiments and convey military information.

But there's no plausible proof Ross created or inspired the design for the flag commissioned by the Continental Congress in 1777. Delegates from the 13 colonies resolved that "the flag of the United States be thirteen stripes, alternating red and white, that the Union be thirteen white stars in a blue field representing a new constellation." In fact, other flagmakers of the era laid claim to the flag's creation.

The only "proof" of Ross' involvement is signed affidavits from her progeny made well after her death. This, Miller explains, is how "family memory was converted to national history." Specifically, the story endures that Washington wanted six-pointed stars for the flag and Ross talked him into five-pointed ones.

The lack of documentation is why Miller describes her book as a "story about stories." There is no historical record of Ross' meeting in her parlor with George Washington to hammer out the flag's details.

The Ross family anecdote about Betsy took firm root in 1870 when her grandson William Jackson Canby gave a speech to the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. Miller contends the legend took hold during the post-Civil War "preoccupation with the flag as a symbol of national unity."

Aside from that, I think context does matter. For example, the “Don’t tread on me” snake flag is neat, but it long ago became associated with libertarians at best and the alt-right at worst. I’m not gonna support companies making merch of it.

Edited by wisewillow on Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:14:23 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#284311: Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:50:49 AM

[up][up]Point taken on Betsy Ross, I still think it's stupid.

Pretty much every US flag has been associated with racism and genocide, opposing that one because some white supremacists have latched on to it is pointless at best.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#284312: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:21:52 AM

One of the good things about having to move to Virgina is getting the Gasden Flag license plate. That's something I'm looking forward to.

Anyway, with regards to the Nike Flag thing, I think it's ridiculous that they have to take off the flag. One of the things that always frustrates me is seeing America's past as wholly bad. Something to remember that the flag is the Flag of the whole, not solely belonging to slavers. It was also the flag of abolitionists who fought slavery and won out. Then as now, individuals and society were a mix of good and bad.

That said, I can see the argument why that one shouldn't be used. Consider for a moment the flag in question, the Betsy Ross flag. In general one would describe it as a circle of stars on a blue Square on a Red and White striped field. Let us also consider for a moment the Confederate national flag. In general one would describe it as a circle of stars on a blue Square on a Red and White striped field.

I tend to be really annoyed with people who let White Nationalists take symbols from the rest of the culture. The OK gesture is one that still annoys me. We shouldn't give in to them in the slightest. However, this is a pretty easy one to see why it's happening (unlike with the OK gesture).

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284313: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:34:20 AM

I don’t understand why they scrapped the flag, just switch it to a different version of the US flag, say the version flown by the Union during the Civil War?

It seems like a lack of imagination on Nike’s part turned what should have been a quick redesign into an incident.

Edited by Silasw on Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:36:30 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284315: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:43:38 AM

So if anyone tries to claim the U.S. flag hasn't become a religious icon or idol

Pretty sure that got settled way back in 1943 when Jehova's Witnesses won the right to not say the Pledge in schools, as it conflicted with their religious belief that they should not worship false idols - namely, the flag.

And with Trump's latest Gaslighting attempt, the sad thing is that, as-written, it doesn't necessarily clash with the actual news. It could be interpreted to mean that they're still trying to get the question on the Census, but it would apply to the 2030 one instead of 2020. Whether Trump actually meant it in that way or deliberately phrased it ambiguously is anyone's guess - my own would be that he meant to lie, and accidentally stumbled upon a non-lie in the process.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 1:47:22 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#284316: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:46:33 AM

So, can Trump try and keep this census nonsense going, or is he just blowing hot air (again)? Is the capitulation by the part of the Commerce Secretary and the DOJ final?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#284317: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:50:22 AM

The census is already printing, so I think no, he can't. At least not with any results.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:50:46 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284318: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:55:55 AM

Yeah once the forms are printed the only thing he could do would be (illegally) ordering the census to not be run.

Now I’ll believe that the forms don’t have a citizenship question when someone gets a copy of the printed form and checks, but until them I’m worried, I wouldn’t put it past Trump to say he was printing the form without the question then print it with the question.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#284319: Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:59:46 AM

He'll dangle the possibility of suspending the Census for a reprint around but probably won't do it.

Or he's ordering and it gets ignored. Wouldn't be the first time.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#284320: Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:08:24 AM

So if anyone tries to claim the U.S. flag hasn't become a religious icon or idol, point them to the whole shitstorm around Nike deciding not to put it on their trainers for the 4th.

*cough* *cough*

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#284321: Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:11:17 AM

[up][up] Literally the only reason he could be found not guilty of Obstruction of Justice is nobody obeyed his orders to obstruct justice.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284322: Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:37:19 AM

I mean Barr did, but he did it all after Muller was done.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#284323: Jul 3rd 2019 at 12:14:20 PM

Even though the administration itself has given in, Trump himself is still saying he's going for the citizenship question.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#284324: Jul 3rd 2019 at 12:24:02 PM

So this one made me go cross-eyed with fury - [New Jersey] Judge James Troiano of Superior Court said that a 16-year-old rapist should be given leniency because he came from "a good family" and attended an "excellent school". This in spite of: The boy allegedly shared with friends a video of him raping the girl, along with the text: "When your first time having sex is rape."

He also piled on by basically pulling the "legitimate rape" idea:

Judge James Troiano of Superior Court argued that the alleged attack did not constitute a "traditional case of rape", which he described as "generally two or more males involved, either at gunpoint or [with a] weapon, clearly manhandling a person into ... an area where ... there was nobody around, sometime in an abandoned house, sometimes in an abandoned shed, shack, and just simply taking advantage of the person as well as beating the person, threatening the person."

The judge also said the video that the boy is alleged to have sent to his peers was "just a 16-year-old kid saying stupid crap to his friends". The defendant was "clearly a candidate for not just college but probably for a good college", he added.

He said that prosecutors should have made it clear to the girl that pressing charges against the boy, who was an eagle scout with good grades, would destroy his life.

The appeals court has cleared the way for the case to go from family court to an adult court, where it will be tried by a grand jury. The court said the fact that the juvenile "came from a good family and had good test scores" should not impact whether the trial went to adult court.

So hooray for the Appeals court, but... fucking christ.

The Hill has a more detailed write-up about the case, incidentally.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 3:31:54 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284325: Jul 3rd 2019 at 12:29:38 PM

Judge James Troiano of Superior Court argued that the alleged attack did not constitute a "traditional case of rape", which he described as "generally two or more males involved, either at gunpoint or [with a] weapon, clearly manhandling a person into ... an area where ... there was nobody around, sometime in an abandoned house, sometimes in an abandoned shed, shack, and just simply taking advantage of the person as well as beating the person, threatening the person."

I feel like this description was specifically engineered to help as many young, white, and affluent bros beat rape cases as possible.

i'm tired, my friend

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