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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#284226: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:59:09 PM

[up]By the look of things, they might need to completely remake the whole institution from scratch.

Remember: the ones on the online groups are just the vocal ones, the actual number is probably far higher.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#284227: Jul 1st 2019 at 11:24:01 PM

Well, given that's about half of them, I'd probably just fire the whole damn organization and hire monkeys.

Leviticus 19:34
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#284228: Jul 2nd 2019 at 2:08:36 AM

It sounds like a number of the... people working for CBP are absolutely disgusting. Somehow, I'm not that surprised.

Do not obey in advance.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284229: Jul 2nd 2019 at 2:21:43 AM

Institutional evil is something that can't be underestimated. If you create a culture of violence and racism then you need to rip it out root and stem. Trump has done his best to make huge sections of Homeland Security into a Wretched Hive.

People forget the TOTALITY of proverbs.

"There's just a few bad apples" they say.

The proverb is, "A few bad apples SPOIL THE BARREL."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 2nd 2019 at 2:22:46 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#284230: Jul 2nd 2019 at 3:41:30 AM

Indeed.

Do not obey in advance.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#284231: Jul 2nd 2019 at 4:16:32 AM

US threatens new tariffs on European goods over aircraft subsidies.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284232: Jul 2nd 2019 at 5:01:41 AM

Warren Buffet is giving away 3.5 billion dollars in Berkshire stock to charities.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-to-donate-36-billion-to-charity-151248703.html

I've always liked the tale of Warren Buffet to an extent in that the man set out as a passionate life-long goal to become the richest man in the world no matter the cost, only to suddenly be overwhelmed by Bill Gates taking said spot. Then Warren watched Bill Gates give away massive portions of his estate to charity. This resulting in a kind of "Grinch's heart grows three sizes" and caused him to re-evaluate the priorities in his life.

Would make a good movie.

Not even including his son is the archetypal Beach Bum.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 2nd 2019 at 5:06:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284233: Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:05:09 AM

If he was so keen on being such a great guy, he’d pay every employee at every company he controls a living wage and great benefits, make widespread efforts to be a leader among employers for fighting systemic racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, and xenophobia, and he’d put money behind labor rights legislation, voting rights legislation, ballot referendums, local candidates, etc, that address root causes of systemic issues and fight the rise of fascism.

Checks notes

Ah. I’m seeing he does standard “behold how generous I am” donations to big charities that are already well funded and are mostly run by other billionaire types. 0% surprised.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#284234: Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:07:41 AM

Might wanna check those notes again, his history of political activism and lobbying is pretty much exactly what you've listed.

The dude is in favor of stock option expensing and an inheritance tax.

Edited by LeGarcon on Jul 2nd 2019 at 11:08:52 AM

Oh really when?
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284235: Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:10:14 AM

I know he’s one of those vague “my taxes should be higher” people, but I don’t recall seeing him have anywhere near the influence or direct action of say the Koch brothers. Just donating to Planned Parenthood and Hillary Clinton is not what I meant.

For example, for $3.5 billion, he could fix the water/lead pipes in Flint and dozens of other towns with the same problems, and still have tons of money leftover to do whatever else. For $3.5 billion, he could help hundreds of state legislative candidates in tough districts and races get elected.

Edited by wisewillow on Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:14:53 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#284236: Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:13:54 AM

That'd take about a decade to do at the best if it's even actually possible for a private citizen to do considering the ownership of the cities water system in flint.

Systematic and wide sweeping change can only come from the government which is why he's so dead set on increasing taxes.

Edited by LeGarcon on Jul 2nd 2019 at 11:15:43 AM

Oh really when?
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#284238: Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:29:57 AM

I wonder if those border patrol guards would be willing to commit genocide. It’s (probably) not going to happen, but I’m sure they would be absolutely gleeful to murder people. Something something they shouldn’t have come, as if that justifies these atrocities. No one, no matter their crimes, should be treated like that. I wonder if some GOP senators went if they’d change their minds. They’d probably just double down and blame the democrats.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#284239: Jul 2nd 2019 at 9:36:52 AM

I think I agree with wisewillow in general, but also think that when talking about specific people she has a tendency to get a bit... self-righteous sounding.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#284240: Jul 2nd 2019 at 9:38:44 AM

I have a strong moral objection to the existence of billionaires. I’ll try to tone it down when the subject comes up for the sake of polite and productive discourse.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#284241: Jul 2nd 2019 at 9:42:58 AM

[up][up]She's right there you know, there's no point speaking in the third person. tongue

And I generally agree, direct funding to causes to bring about instant and effective alleviation should be a priority as well as systemic change - which I'm not sure they're super sincere or effective at supporting - so they might as well directly fund stuff.

"Every billionaire is a policy failure."

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jul 2nd 2019 at 5:43:54 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#284242: Jul 2nd 2019 at 9:52:43 AM

I don't really have much thoughts on the morality of the existence of billionaires one way or the other.

I'd just recall that when this conversations come up, the idea of "just give X amount of money to directly fix serious problem yourself" seems like it would have several holes in it.

But, I'm also not anywhere close to an expert on money management or the like.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284243: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:02:17 AM

Yeah even beyond the base logistics you might get a nasty knock-on effect, where local infrastructure funding gets slashed because he’s picking up the bill, then when he’s gone the funding is still slashed and his money has stopped covering the hole.

That’s not to say the “I’ve to much money to give it all away” isn’t an absurd idea, it is, with companies a person controls they can increase base wages, they can begin a profit-share scheme with the staff, they can grant better health insurance, etc...

That’s without touching politics directly, which one could do, even just the money to cover the salaries of people who are willing to take time out of employment to run a paper campaign against incumbent republicans would make a huge impact.

Edited by Silasw on Jul 2nd 2019 at 5:02:42 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284244: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:04:11 AM

I have a very cynical take on people who object to the mere existence of billionaires because if they were suddenly given a billion dollars for whatever reason I high doubt they'd be so generous.

My problem is with the behavior of billionaires.

Which is not to imply that people who dislike billionaires are jealous, just that I think no one is so selfless as to distribute whatever insane wealth they might have should they come into it.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 2nd 2019 at 1:08:14 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284245: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:05:41 AM

I think that calling people hypocrites because of how you think they’d act if given a ton of money is getting mighty close to making a personal attack.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284246: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:08:30 AM

[up]If that's how you want to interpret that, I can't stop you.

Look, we can talk all day about how billionaires should give more, but the fact of the matter is they won't, and never will short of maybe government pressure, because if the average person - honestly, most people - were to inherit that kind of money, I can bet you they'd be pretty resistant to let at least most of it go.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 2nd 2019 at 1:13:46 PM

i'm tired, my friend
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#284247: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:10:17 AM

I just find the idea of "you could give more, so that inherently devalues whatever you do give" not a particularly convincing one.

Granted, billionaires are such an outlier in that idea can even some merit, but the idea does still fundamentally rub me the wrong way. But that's me.

And it's also a separate issue from whether or not the money they give is being put to good practical usage, which also seemed to be a part of the discussion.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 2nd 2019 at 12:11:11 PM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#284248: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:12:45 AM

I feel like one of the big problems is that you can't just walk to an ATM, withdraw 2.4 billion dollars from your checking account, and hand it to the mayor of Flint. Net worth often isn't liquid like that. There's undoubtedly more billionaires could do to spread their wealth around (benefits for employees, stock options, higher minimum wage, etc.), but I imagine directly giving funds of that magnitude is an incredibly slow process that has to be vetted.

It's been fun.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284249: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:14:08 AM

Billionaires exist for two reasons:

  1. Significant flaws in our economic system that make it possible for billionaires to come into existence.
  2. People with the means, opportunity, and desire to exploit those flaws and become billionaires.

So, yes, the existence of billionaires is a problem. When all the wealth in the nation begins flowing out of the general pool and into a few tiny funnels, that is a problem both with how the nation manages wealth and also with those tiny funnels that are taking advantage of the system to suck it all up.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 2nd 2019 at 11:15:01 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#284250: Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:15:52 AM

Giving your money to charity when it's in massive amounts like that is a huge pain in the ass and there's a ton of legal and accounting work that needs to be done.

Especially if it's a smaller one or if it's to a government agency or something similar.

Hell Bill Gates has been giving away his fortune like it's a full time job and he's still got unspendable amounts left.

Oh really when?

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