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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284001: Jun 28th 2019 at 8:10:13 AM

My ass Gillibrand was "shrill". If anything, she didn't go hard enough. Outside of her stances on corruption in DC and women's rights, she was so insistent on being the "guys, guys, you're both right" candidate. If she can't even stand up to people in her own party, how am I supposed to expect her to stand up to Republicans?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jun 28th 2019 at 11:14:21 AM

i'm tired, my friend
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#284002: Jun 28th 2019 at 8:12:18 AM

To be fair, standing up to The Enemy is (psychologically) much easier than to your own party...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284003: Jun 28th 2019 at 8:14:26 AM

I'll put it like this: you know how in shonen manga there's always this one scene where the protagonist and the rival are going at it and the sweetheart female lead is like "Please stop fighting!"

That's her. That's Gillibrand. I don't want that in a president. I want a president that'll yell "FUCK HIM UP!"

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284004: Jun 28th 2019 at 8:50:33 AM

That is precisely how we got Trump. Pretty much his only merit as a candidate was his brazen macho ability to go "F*ck that asshole. Fake News and Haters can EAT MAH SHIT."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 28th 2019 at 9:51:52 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284005: Jun 28th 2019 at 8:52:38 AM

Her voice is shrill due to the relative high pitch she has compared to the other female candidates. It's a feature she has to deal with and...she didn't. Has nothing to do with attitude, which was just her trying to get a word in.

EDIT-

[up]A fear I have about Williamson actually. Insane as she is.

Edited by FFShinra on Jun 28th 2019 at 8:53:32 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#284006: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:08:08 AM

Much as I hate republican!Trump, I think I'd hate democrat!Trump more.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284007: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:13:23 AM

I want to live in a world where Joe Biden is the Republican candidate, but that's just me.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284008: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:18:27 AM

Honestly at this point, especially after the 2018 elections, a lot of the Dem gains were in GOP areas that were disgusted by the party and are now a good chunk of the current moderates. Even though Biden wasn't one of them, it's to them and their constituents he is speaking to so actually he sort of is the "traditional" republican candidate.

Such is the problem with a two party system. The current Dems should be two seperate parties in alliance with one another rather than a big tent attempting to please all (or screw over one).

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284009: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:20:05 AM

What I'm saying is I don't want a candidate who prioritizes pleasing everybody over taking a stand against the Republican Party. Outside of her two hot button issues, Gillibrand seems like she'd do just that.

Also I'm quite offended at the suggestion that I want Trump: Democrat Edition.

EDIT: One's voice being "shrill" has nothing to do with how effective they'd be in office, and bringing it up as a mark against them is stupid.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jun 28th 2019 at 12:23:19 PM

i'm tired, my friend
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#284010: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:22:44 AM

>Gillibrand unable to stand up to her party

Not sure if that's correct, considering she's most well known for immediately and vocally condemning Al Franken and pushing for his resignation. Rather, she seemed to be trying to position herself as the candidate that had the best qualities of all the candidates.

>Gillibrand as "shrill"

...I didn't see it?

>Gillibrand as a candidate

Neither of these are defenses of her, I like her about as little as the rest of you.

Edit: [up][tup]

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#284011: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:29:46 AM

[up] Again, though, the Bad Touch Franken debacle was at least in part a women's rights issue (in this case, a woman's right not to be sexually harassed in her sleep, which there's probably a much more succinct term for). And it's good that she's a strong and vocal advocate for that. My problem is that, outside of that and corruption, she's just too soft for my liking. I'd have much less of a problem with her if all the other issues sparked the fire in her eyes as much as those two.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jun 28th 2019 at 12:30:02 PM

i'm tired, my friend
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284012: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:46:22 AM

I did not say a word about her as a candidate in terms of anything other than her voice. It was shrill to me. It's an opinion. I also said Biden looked tired but I didn't see you jumping up and down and calling me ageist. So it's only as "stupid" as your own opinion, which seems to be an assumption that I'm making a value statement about her as a person.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#284013: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:47:15 AM

That would only be a valid argument if "shrillness" were not an established dog whistle associated with sexist attitudes towards women.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284014: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:49:33 AM

Not everyone uses every word the same way. It isn't a dog whistle for me. Don't mind her as a candidate other than her voice. And if I had a problem with women candidates, I'd have a problem with all the women candidates.

Dog whistles require context for it to be a dog whistle. I gave a different context - the literal one - than the one people tend to otherwise say when they use that word.

And if a different word would suffice, then fine. She was cacophonous.

Edited by FFShinra on Jun 28th 2019 at 9:50:39 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#284015: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:50:35 AM

That would be like me using the phrase "strapping young buck" or "welfare queen" and claiming ignorance of its meaning as a racist dog whistle. You don't get a pass because you personally did not mean it that way.

Just drop it.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 28th 2019 at 12:51:22 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284016: Jun 28th 2019 at 9:59:04 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#284017: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:05:55 AM

Dude, you messed up and used a piece of verbage you didn't realize had problematic connotations. It happens to everyone. Just go "Whoops, my bad,", make that mental note, and let it go.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 28th 2019 at 11:06:04 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#284018: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:07:11 AM

Uh, Shinra, Fighteer is not wrong though, it is frequently used as a dogwhistle. Whether or not its a word or a phrase, and regardless of your intent, it is used in that way by other people, and that does make it seem like you were using it as well.

Edit: [up][awesome]

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jun 28th 2019 at 1:07:25 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284019: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:11:22 AM

You've been asked to cut it out. Please do.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284020: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:16:15 AM

I think this is one of those cases where it’s helpful to use a more elaborate term just for the sake of avoiding confusion. “She sounded shrill to me” and “I found her voice difficult to listen to” are exactly the same in literal meaning but the second one dodges a potential misunderstanding.

Though I’d note that everyone seems to be engaging in some pretty bad faith discussion here, as Shinra is a known quantity who got a term wrong, not someone we’d have any reason to think as using a dogwhistle.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 28th 2019 at 5:17:31 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284021: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:16:34 AM

EDIT- Nevermind.

[up][awesome] Fair enough.

Edited by FFShinra on Jun 28th 2019 at 10:17:22 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#284022: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:23:05 AM

... related, but probably bad to jump on this here, but I do have to disagree with "bratty child" being gendered. Or at least being gendered against females. Since the most famous person who frequently gets compared to a bratty child is Trump.

Anyway. I thought that Gillibrand's problem was that she kept posturing herself as the best candidate on more issues than most, but without backing it up. She seemed like she was shooting for a Master of All but came across as a Master of None because some of the issues she tried to claim the to be superior in, other candidates put forward more concrete reasons why they were better.

And the problem with her voice wasn't shrillness, it was speed. She and Harris had the opposite approach for getting their voice heard during the arguments. Gillibrand tried to get in quickly and speak fast to get in before everyone else, Harris spoke slower and loud to be heard over the squabble. Harris' approach was more effective in getting her heard, and had the benefit of having her come across as the adult in the room.

Edited by Larkmarn on Jun 28th 2019 at 1:25:41 PM

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#284023: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:26:14 AM

To be fair, I'd argue having a shrill voice actually might be a legitimate issue, because part of a president's job is the be The Face of the government. Similarly, people tend to focus on things like that when deciding to what extent they like the president.

For example, with Trump a non-trivial part of why he's polarizing is because of simple mannerisms and his style of speech. He talks like an ill-mannered middle school student. Bush Jr, as well, was endlessly mocked for the way he spoke.

By contrast, I was really tempted to like Corey Booker during the first debate (which I admittedly barely watched) just by hearing a single sentence of his-he spoke with a certain degree of assertiveness that I admired. I don't remember what he was saying (I recall it being on an issue I'm largely ambivalent to), just that the way he said it was kind of cool. Though he's not my front-runner. That title currently goes to Pete for similar reasons, though I'm also interested in Tulsi. Not necessarily supportive, but I do think it'd be nice for America's first female president to be a veteran, and also I think them being a Hindu is also interesting. Basically, the veteran part to me shows that they're likely both patriotic and 'tough', and the fact that they're also a Hindu Woman means that they have a unique perspective other presidents haven't really had before.

Leviticus 19:34
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#284024: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:26:19 AM

[up][up]The senators in general seem to be that way. Which is why it was smart for Harris to talk about her AG experience instead.

[up]Gabbard mucks it up by defending Assad and having a sort of "fuck you got mine" variety to Pacifism.

Edited by FFShinra on Jun 28th 2019 at 10:41:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284025: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:34:02 AM

[up]X3 It comes down to if one uses “child” or “girl”, for women a gendered aspect often gets added to calling them is true, that gendered addition isn’t needed.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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