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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The concern is that by scaring noncitizens away from reporting to the census it will artificially decrease the population of states with many of them. And thus rig the redistricting in 2020 against them. It's not simply a matter of racism, it's also a matter of fraud.
Regarding Warren's proposals, I don't like asking this question but are these laws, constitutional amendments or executive orders?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman![]()
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Except part of why the Census is conducted - besides determining how many Reps in the House each State gets - is to help determine allocations of Federal funds
for a lot of stuff.
So not having the actual population of an area accurately factored in there is detrimental, to say the least. Beyond that, as others have pointed out (as did the article I linked to), evidence has come to light that it's blatantly a racial bias at play here
, as the Republicans expect it to disproportionately impact Hispanic communities, thus weakening Democratic power.
Per the first link in the article referenced above, which is about a different development in the same case:
Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 25th 2019 at 4:37:57 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"The citizenship question has been a part of taking a census for a long time.
NPR: FACT CHECK: Has Citizenship Been A Standard Census Question?
In 1960, there was no such question about citizenship, only about place of birth.
...
In 1970, the Census Bureau began sending around two questionnaires: a short-form questionnaire to gather basic population information and a long form that asked detailed questions about everything from household income to plumbing. The short form went to most households in America. The long form was sent to a much smaller sample of households, 1 in 6. Most people didn't get it.
Starting in 1970, questions about citizenship were included in the long-form questionnaire but not the short form. For instance, in 2000, those who received the long form were asked, "Is this person a CITIZEN of the United States?"
...
Later, the census added the American Community Survey, conducted every year and sent to 3.5 million households. It began being fully implemented in 2005. It asks many of the same questions as the census long-form surveys from 1970 to 2000, including the citizenship question.
Sanders said that in 2010 the citizenship question was removed. In fact, there was no long form that year — it had been replaced by the annual American Community Survey. The decennial census form asked just 10 questions.
To sum up
Citizenship Question?
1950: Yes
1960: No
1970: Yes on Long Form
1980: Yes on Long Form
1990: Yes on Long Form
2000: Yes on Long Form
2010: Yes via the American Community Survey which replaced the long form.
So the last five have had the citizenship question on them.
It was great well crafted, insightful, and deeply needed.
In other words, it was normal for Warren.
It's like how Trump doing something vile and stupid doesn't cause much discussion, it's very much an expected occurence. The same for Warren releasing a detailed and well put together plan.
Still,
for posting it. It was interesting.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 25th 2019 at 1:36:30 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI have found some very interesting poling information.
Besides being obviously good for Harris this is, more importantly, quite bad for Biden. Because it brings her to a total of three endorsements, closer to his five. At the moment, old African-Americans are part of the people supporting him and if they abandon Biden for Harris then his chances of winnning should decrease notably.
All in all, quite excellent news
The second bit of news is good for Warren and quite bad for Sanders.
Further context should demonstrate how important this is, in 2016 80% of Move On prefered Bernie to Hillary. T He fact Sanders only has two points more support then Biden amongst them is just brutal.
So Warren's chances of victory could very well go even higher if this is represenative amongst progressives.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 25th 2019 at 1:45:13 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangAlso.
I almost never hear it mentioned that of people are here legally who are not US citizens. The "illegal immigrants shouldn't count" argument doesn't even jive since the vast majority of non-citizens in the country are still here legally. There's a reason "lawful permanent resident" is a thing. Hell, my wife isn't even a permanent resident and she pays more than I do in taxes.
But it's a question meant to disenfranchise and scare non-white people. So who cares, right?
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.So the last five have had the citizenship question on them.
For context, the Long Form census with the citizenship question went to less than 17% of the population.
The American Community Survey goes to less than 1%.
Edited by Parable on Jun 25th 2019 at 1:55:14 AM
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Honestly, I had the same thought cross my mind when making my last post (not the page-topper), but didn't know how many of them are legally allowed to vote in Federal elections, which tends to be the thrust of the argument as presented.
Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 25th 2019 at 4:54:41 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"In my ideal world, it wouldn't matter how you got here or how long you wanted to stay, as long as you paid your taxes. Current illegal aliens might be asked to pay back taxes for the time they have been here, but that's about it. You pay your taxes, you get the government services. If you want to decide what the government does, then you need to go through the process of becoming a citizen. But if you don't care about that, you don't have to become a citizen.
~~~
Edit: Intresting.
NPR: Analysis: The Politics Of National Humiliation In The Trump-Xi Meeting
This month, I was visiting China with a small group of journalists for 10 days, and the word "humiliation" came up over and over again in conversations both public and private, in meetings with top government officials, university scholars, think tankers and corporate executives.
The Chinese clearly like to play the humiliation card. Almost all of them shared the feelings of disrespect and humiliation that course through them when President Trump accuses the country of going back on its word or threatens President Xi Jinping with tariffs. Both country's leaders go head-to-head this week at the Group of 20 summit in Japan.
"The only thing we ask the U.S. to do is respect us," said Yu Dunhai, deputy director general at China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. "If bullied, China will not simply kneel before the U.S."
It's worth noting that Yu began his meeting by talking about how China "is an old country with 5,000 years of history."
It is this ancient history that the Chinese are very proud of, and they consider a century-long period of subjugation by foreign powers from the 19th to 20th centuries an aberration — 100 years of humiliation.
...
In the Communist Party's ideological reeducation of the country's population, humiliation by foreign powers is a strong emotional underpinning of the country's national identity.
... because of their accomplishments today, Zheng says, there is a feeling that "other countries have to respect China."
...
David Daokui Li, an economics professor at Tsinghua University, said, "China is a country that needs respect."
...
given the country's image of itself, Xi has to avoid anything that has the semblance of humiliation even though he is meeting a world leader who has shown no qualms about humiliating others.
...
If Xi caves in to Trump's threats, he risks not just looking weak but as bowing to humiliation rained down from the West once again. But the cost of angering Trump could jeopardize the economic miracle that is China.
Edited by Soban on Jun 25th 2019 at 5:42:56 AM
If the comment you're responding to is too far up, just link it back or put the handles' name before, like:
"@Mr X: something something"
Otherwise, it just gets confusing.
> So what about people who can't pay taxes, like the homeless?
clearly the solution is to make them pay a homeless tax
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverCurrent illegal aliens might be asked to pay back taxes for the time they have been here, but that's about it.
The "funny" thing is, given the types of menial labor that those here illegally tend to take, odds are pretty high that the they'd actually get money back on their taxes, provided they weren't paid under-the-table to start with. Payroll taxes, Social Security, Medicaid? They aren't entitled to a damn bit of it under the current system, so they're literally paying money in that they'd never be able to claim.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

And in a couple bits of interesting news, we have:
"The prospect of such high and rising debt poses substantial risks for the nation and presents policymakers with significant challenges," the CBO said in its "Long-Term Budget Outlook" report, adding that the US would see even larger increases in debt if lawmakers reversed course on plans to slash spending in 2020 and to let tax cuts expire in 2026.
Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 25th 2019 at 4:21:40 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"