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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#283351: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:17:50 AM

Well said.

Public relations matter but terrorists will inevitably try to use it as a shield to allow their rot to grow and spread. Better we excise it before they become a real threat.

I hope Senate Democrats make the right choice and show that these kind of tactics are not going to work.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#283352: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:29:07 AM

One of the senators has openly threatened to kill police and has a PMC under his employ at his compound.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#283353: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:30:19 AM

Nitpick, it's the governor who gives orders to the Oregon State Police. The legislature can request the governor dispatch the officers, which they did in this case, but ultimately it's up to Kate Brown what happens.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#283354: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:30:26 AM

[up][up]Dude is literally committing an act of insurrection.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 23rd 2019 at 12:30:36 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#283355: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:37:05 AM

[up][up]Not sure how I made that mistake, I correctly mentioned the Governor when I originally posted the news.

Thanks for the correction smile

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ishntknew Since: Apr, 2009
#283356: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:41:05 AM

We of Oregon elected a Democratic supermajority in 2018 and now these cowards are defying the will of the people with threats of violence. I really want the right wing to start being held accountable for this garbage.

Our votes are being invalidated with guns. This is insane. Democracy cannot survive if things like this are not met with extreme force.

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#283358: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:50:10 AM

Does anyone have a good article to recap the situation in Oregon? Something about Republican Senators going into hiding to standstill the legislature and a militia trying to shut down (and de-facto launch a coup) against the legislature?

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#283359: Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:50:19 AM

For the state government's authority to be maintained, these militiamen must be arrested, and if necessary put down. Any and all legal means must be pursued. The state government cannot and must not be perceived as craven in a moment of institutional crisis.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 23rd 2019 at 12:50:55 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#283360: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:02:08 AM

[up][up]Why a Group of Senators are Being Hunted by the Police, a BBC article.

Edit: Just saw this part: "The senators are being ordered to pay $500 (£390) each for every day they are absent. An online fundraiser to pay their fines has so far raised almost $38,000 (£30,000) as of Sunday." WHY. What the heck. My dudes, at least let their corporate donors do that.

Edited by Bur on Jun 23rd 2019 at 12:04:20 PM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#283361: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:04:07 AM

This has nothing to do with constitutionality or due process; it has to do with ceding sovereignty of state and local government to people who've declared war on the lawful authority of the United States.

Also a fundamental misunderstanding of the United States Constitution, and history.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#283362: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:10:59 AM

And this is why I hate Guns for ordinary citizens.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#283363: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:19:09 AM

Well, hasn't Oregon gotten its share of surplus military equipment from the federal government to arm and overmilitarize their police?

You brought your army to my city, James. Use it!

Seriously, we have a clear excuse to open fire on an openly anti-government militia. Oregon needs to take that excuse and either make an example, or (less preferably but politically better) trap them and make a joke of them like happened last time these punks mobilized.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#283364: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:23:22 AM

These people want to be martyrs, it's wise not to indulge them.

Oh really when?
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#283365: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:25:37 AM

It's easy for them to want to be martyrs when they know that they'll never be called on to actually be martyrs.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#283366: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:26:35 AM

Sometimes you need to give the people what they want. It's just good politics.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#283367: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:30:04 AM

If real military came for them how long do you think they'd last before surrendering?

I give them all of second

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#283368: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:36:48 AM

Judging by last time, they'd fort up for a couple of weeks and then surrender once people started sending care packages.

Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#283369: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:41:58 AM

Or things could go tits up like Ruby Ridge and inspire terrorist attacks.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#283370: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:43:20 AM

[up]X6 They also want to shut down the Oregon government, if we have to give them one of their wants I know which one I’m more okay with.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 23rd 2019 at 5:43:36 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#283371: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:55:01 AM

[up][up]Not likely. Ruby Ridge is one of the reasons why the government tries not to move first against militias - partly because white militias are not going to put up with it and will fire back, partly because, in the Ruby Ridge case, the government ultimately couldn't prove their case on the core charges, and lost a massive legal settlement when the Weavers took it to court. Militias are able to make things a huge pain in the ass for the government in a way that parents of black teenagers simply can't mobilize, so the police focus on minorities instead of angry, armed white men.

This, though? There's a clear and present act of insurrection going on, and threats of violence have been made. No reason not to take the brakes off.

Edited by Ramidel on Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:55:32 AM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#283372: Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:55:17 AM

I thought advocating violence was against the rules here?

Plenty of people have died unjustly at the hands of the government. These people want to hijack that narrative for their own purposes. That is the nature of terrorism; you invite an overwhelming overreaction, and bank on your being more sympathetic than the State actors.

Don't over-react. Don't escalate drama. Disable and defuse discreetly and quietly, without making a fuss.

And then, if you need to make an example, sort it all out in court.

Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#283373: Jun 23rd 2019 at 11:00:10 AM

[up][up] I am 1000% sure "a clear and present act of insurrection" is not the narrative sympathizers will believe if things go tits up.

Edited by Bur on Jun 23rd 2019 at 1:00:58 PM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#283374: Jun 23rd 2019 at 11:01:23 AM

Opening fire is just giving the militias what they want. We need to promote the rule of law, not warfare.

They should have sent a poet.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#283375: Jun 23rd 2019 at 11:03:56 AM

Slaughtering your own citizens is generally bad policy, even when they're daring you to do it. This should be treated like any other instance of potentially large-scale armed resistance against a lawful government order. Do everything you can (short of backing down) to avoid turning it into a shootout. If that means surrounding the site with National Guard and negotiating with them until their food runs out, so be it. But going in guns blazing should always be a last resort used only in order to prevent an even worse outcome (such as innocents being killed).

The analogous situation I'm thinking of would be the Branch Davidians in Waco back in the 90s. Just, you know, hopefully without everyone dying this time.

Edited by NativeJovian on Jun 23rd 2019 at 2:05:06 PM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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