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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Why do you think so many of us here are not happy about Biden being the likely winner of the nomination?
It's because he's kind of a garbage human being who isn't likely to do a lot of necessary reforms. He's still better than Trump, but he's far from ideal for those of a progressive bent.
He however has appeal among more moderate or conservative-leaning people who have not yet drunk GOP Flavor-Aid. Especially older voters, who are the more reliable voting bloc.
Disgusted, but not surprisedThere's nothing moderate about sentencing people to fifteen years in jail for having a gram of coaine on them. Or thinking that school desegregation is a net loss for public education.
The more I read about the Anita Hill incident, the more appalled I am.
Edited by Oruka on Jun 23rd 2019 at 3:10:40 AM
That was considered moderate back in the day.
Tough on Crime was very popular in those years.
That's the thing. Times may change, but people usually do not. Today's progressive is tomorrow's conservative. Not because they changed per se, but because the world around them did.
Edited by M84 on Jun 23rd 2019 at 6:14:36 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedI don't know, that sounds like the same sort of logic that got Trump elected. "Yeah, he's kinda garbage, but it's still better than letting them win."
I mean, he probably is, for sure, but maybe it would be good to push back a little more actively? If he was a Republican, this thread would be at his throat.
Edited by Kayeka on Jun 23rd 2019 at 12:25:56 PM
That would be a tough sell given that a lot of people are motivated by their dislike of the other party more than their liking of their own
.
This is the reason, incidentally, why moderate politicians still perform better in elections than partisan ones - they reduce the turnout of the other side. It's not just about the turnout of your side, but also that of the other. A point that merits reemphasizing as people keep disregarding it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanHashtag Bernie Sanders Has Been Saying The Same Things For Forty Years.
Counterargument: Hashtag Liz Warren Was Once Ultraconservative.
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Simply a statement of fact. He is better than Trump, but that's pretty much damning by faint praise.
So if he wins the primaries, I doubt anyone here will not vote for him in the general election, as much as we might loathe him.
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I did say "usually".
Edited by M84 on Jun 23rd 2019 at 8:20:31 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedI won't stay home if Biden wins the nomination. A dead rat would be a better President than Trump. More generally, I will never again vote for a Republican for any political office in this country, because they have abrogated all morality, ethics, and accountability. In turn, I will always vote for the Democrat, because in our current system a third-party vote is meaningless, and keeping Republicans out of power is the highest political priority.
It is hard to imagine something that could change my mind.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 23rd 2019 at 8:21:23 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I mean, he probably is, for sure, but maybe it would be good to push back a little more actively? If he was a Republican, this thread would be at his throat.
There are plenty of better candidates in the mix, but speaking purely personally, all I care about is getting Trump out of office and if Biden is the one who ends up in that position, President Biden it shall be.
My honest, feels before reals feeling right now is that if Donald Trump is allowed a second term in office then we, as a nation, deserve whatever we get as a result.
I'm not going to say "I'll never vote Republican again, for anything!" but I will say that it'd take some pretty major changes for me to consider it. But assuming that the Democrats can rally and gain control of the White House and both houses of Congress (which I'm certainly not taking for granted, but also isn't outside the realm of possibility) and actually spend a few years governing and passing laws that do things like strengthen voting rights and undercut gerrymandering, then the GOP will have to change or else die out entirely.
If someone steps up and disavows Trump and the Trump-era GOP, seems sincere, and has reasonable policy stances, then I'm not going to automatically disqualify them just because they have an (R) next to their name. Is that a tall order? Yeah. But it's not impossible, and I think it's important to differentiate between "their side bad because they do bad things!" and "their side bad because they're not our side!".
I don't expect it to happen any time soon. The absolute soonest we'll see it is 2022, assuming a crushing Democratic win in 2020 that looks likely to repeat itself. 2024 or 2026 is more likely, as it gives some time to demonstrate that the Trump wing of the GOP is dead and not coming back.
All of which is a very optimistic take on things, admittedly. But when major political change happens in the US, it tends to happen fast due to the nature of the two party system. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the GOP to change into something unrecognizable (or else die out completely and be replaced by something else) within a decade.
One can always hope.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
I'm not completely discounting the idea that the GOP could undergo some kind of radical restructuring triggered by its collapse into political irrelevancy, adopting more reasonable positions, but I see no plausible mechanism for that to occur, since it would require Fox News to undergo a complete meltdown as well.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:57:57 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It's more likely that the Democratic Party will split into a "Moderate" Party, where the Country Club Republicans, the Blue Dogs, the Classical Liberals and Liberatrians, the Silicon Valley boys, the Compassionate Conservatives might gather, and a "Radical" Party, which is basically the Social-Democrats and all the Further Lefts that can swallow the pill of working with the Socdems in state institutions.
We aren't small white southern farmers who opposed Slavery, we're a large and determined opposition that clearly oppose his vileness.
History will judge us kindly.
I mean, he probably is, for sure, but maybe it would be good to push back a little more actively? If he was a Republican, this thread would be at his throat.
This is wrong on several counts.
Firstly, unlike Republicans, we very much do not want Biden to win the primary. So that alone makes us better than them.
Secondly we do despise him, it's just the sort of everpresent and unanimous opposition that doesn't really need to be said. It's not like we constantly talk about how much we hate Trump.
Thirdly unlike the Republicans, we would be right when saying that Biden would be the lesser evil.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang@OregonGOP is doing a weird flex. "Heavily armed militia lays siege to Oregon's Capitol as Senate Democrats cower in fear."
Yes, the actual photo in the tweet is of a peaceful protest from a few days ago that had nothing to do with the climate change bill that at least one politician has threatened to murder state troopers over. It's still a weird flex that they're bragging/mocking about the government stopping their normal duties due to threats of violence, though.
Edited by Bur on Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:50:24 AM
Terroristic scum, the Senate Democrats should order the state police to seize the Republican Senators regardless of where they're hiding. If they have militia protection then units of the state police who are armed to deal with terrorists should be deployed.
The threat of extra-legal violence cannot be tolerated, if they're allowed to get away with this they won't forget that it worked. Fascists cannot be tolerated lest they inevitably abuse that tolerance.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangAt some point we have to stop pussyfooting around in a panic over public relations and give the militia nuts the war they've been asking for. This has nothing to do with constitutionality or due process; it has to do with ceding sovereignty of state and local government to people who've declared war on the lawful authority of the United States.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 23rd 2019 at 12:19:03 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Joe Biden is even worse than I thought.
Those are the huge ones with immense human cost. Then, on a weaker, more personal note:
Edited by Oruka on Jun 23rd 2019 at 3:02:40 AM