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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Personally, considering our history with extremists and authorities clashing tend to end up badly for everyone, I hope the police stall that for as long as possible.
> They're concentration camps.
I dont think anyone here is arguing that're not
BUT
I can see why someone might object to comparisons with the Nazi Death camps,its an extreme comparison so its easier for them dismiss
Edited by Ultimatum on Jun 22nd 2019 at 9:15:40 AM
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverFrom what I gather...
- Concentration camp: A place where lots of people are imprisoned without specific charges or trials.
- Death camp: A place that is specifically established and/or designed/repurposed for the explicit goal to kill people that are sent there as "prisoners".
Technically speaking, a death camp cannot be a concentration camp except as a pretense for the public or as a "temporary" side function that precedes its actual purpose of murdering the inmates.
Just my two cents.
@AceofSpades: I'm not worried about the police not stalling. I'm worried about the possibility of a group being fanatical and desperate enough that they'd hold hostages and start making crazy demands of the government.
@Archonspeaks: I hope you're right about them being too full of shit and/or incompetence to actually be a genuine threat (for long, at least).
Edited by MarqFJA on Jun 22nd 2019 at 12:27:51 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.All Nazi camps were concentration camps, not all concentration camps were Nazi camps.
The Trump camps are places to concentrate people.
You can also refer to them as prison camps.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.The minute they start holding actual people hostage is the moment they've committed a crime that really can't be ignored or stalled the way they did when it was just a building. The police would have to take some kind of action at that point.
Edit; But I also haven't heard them threatening to do that. Shoot the police yes, on the pretense of self defense, but not holding anyone hostage.
Edited by AceofSpades on Jun 22nd 2019 at 4:49:15 AM
The problem is that stalling often means giving in, when the groups are able to threaten the police enough that the police back down, you’ve lost the monopoly of force, exactly the same as if ISIS set up shop in the US are nobody did anything about to because they didn’t want a mess.
The problem of right-wing militias has been growing for decades, if its not stomped out now it will continue to grow and grow until the militias are powerful enough to pose a serious military threat.
If the police can’t handle them then the national guard need to be sent in, before the militias grow to the point where the national guard can’t handle them.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranTo talk of those camps really just gets me back to wonder how the Trump years are going to be framed in, like, 50 years in schools and stuff.
I mean, even now you have a lot of opposition to that, but I highly doubt anything negative (under the guise of neutrality) would be said in textbooks about Trump while he's still alive, and for awhile after his death.
I think that depends on what textbook policy is like in fifty years. Right now school texts are framed as neutrally as possible, or just doesn't mention them at all. If things stay the same, I imagine that school texts will fail to mention the camps at all, while texts meant for college students and more general adult audiences will be far more opinionated on the matter.
Considering concentration camps got their very names from the Boer War, for which extermination was not the primary goal but for which morale breakage was and death and disease a not-unwelcome side effect, it's disingenuous to consider active extermination a necessary requirement for the label. In this sense the immigrant holding camps are shockingly similar to the original namesakes.
And I don't think the people calling them concentration camps are necessarily equating them to the Nazi death camps (and if they are, while deaths motivated by racism are a likely goal of these assholes the similarities are a bit more tenuous), but AOC seems like a person at least decently enough versed in history to know of the Boer War so she can stir up the emotions while having an accurate historical anchor point to compare to.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 22nd 2019 at 8:09:10 AM
That's what I mean, she went with the term "concentration camp" because she both knows of the associations it has with Nazism and also the fact that it's historically accurate in its own way, as opposed to calling them "death camps" which is also charged but lacks the historical accuracy angle so they can't smear her with a gotcha so easily.
So AOC apparently poked a Hornet's Nest with her comparison of ICE camps and concentration camps....
Whats your opinion on this?
George Takei has also been tweeting in support of the concentration camp label based on his own experience in the Japanese camps.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 22nd 2019 at 2:54:14 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.I take no small solace in the fact that AOC is turning an internet description of the camps into public discourse.
And that the GOP backfired by getting a lot of people to state, yes, they are really concentration camps.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Ugh, and apparently a Trump administration official actually argued that the children being held in these places aren't necessarily entitled to toothbrushes, toothpaste, or soap
, on the basis that it's intended as a "shorter stay." As if 3 days without being able to brush their teeth is good for a kid, or 3 days without a shower in 80+ degree weather.
Actually, nix that - apparently this case dates back to Obama's
presidency... which makes me all the more keen to not have Biden get in.
Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 22nd 2019 at 12:44:34 PM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"They're concentration camps in the classical sense - they are not now death camps, though deaths do happen there with alarming frequency. They are meant to round up people who the state has decreed to be wrong for seeking asylum, and put them into literal camps in poor conditions. It is one of the most horrible things to come out of the Trump Presidency, quite probably at the top of the list - and that is not for lack of competition.
Jesus Christ in Heaven. Any future generations will never forgive us for this, and rightly so.
They'll certainly know that was a ton of visible opposition to all these policies, just like in the times of slavery, starting from the fact that Trump did not even win the popular vote.
