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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283251: Jun 21st 2019 at 3:37:22 PM

My opinion is that I'd rather not have to compromise after years of giving ground to them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#283252: Jun 21st 2019 at 5:58:55 PM

Joe Biden was able to work with people like Eastland in the 1970s because there were still northern Republicans who weren't intransigent maniacs.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#283253: Jun 21st 2019 at 6:07:55 PM

It's not hard to see the pitch he's selling. He managed to get important legislation passed working together with segregationists, so why isn't the same possible with thr GOP? He forgets they're even more rabid and stubborn than the racists.

Pod Save America was talking about this, and it pained them to do so because they like Biden, they worked with him throughout the Obama Administration, but they felt he was so obviously wrong in this instance. They could definitely see what he was trying to say about being able to bridge the gap across the aisle, and it's not like we don't see modern examples of this. Look at AOC and Ted Cruz saying they'll make an anti-lobbying bill together. And if Mc Connell goes to Kirstin Gillibrand and says "Hey, want to make a new highway from New York to Kentucky?" you think she's going to dismiss it out of hand even if it means working with this slimeball?

It's just there are some obvious flaws in this particular demonstration.

A) Eastland was a Democrat. A Segregationist, White Supremacist Democrat, but still a Democrat. These were the days when the party still had a staunch conservative wing in the South, just like the Republicans still had a liberal wing. Whats more, Eastland was a much senior Senator who controlled important committees. So of course Biden was going to work with him, practically suck up to him, if he wanted any position of influence.

B) Biden's yearning to a return to an age of civility is leaving out that this was an age of White People Civility. Working with those segregationist on anything always came with the tacit understanding that black people were going to get ignored at best or flat out screwed. Sure you'd work with them to build a highway between your two states that would bring jobs, but the black people in their state wouldn't be getting those jobs.

Biden could have made this same argument with so much better examples. Like when he worked with Republican Bob Dole to extend the Civil Rights Act in the 80's. Or any time he worked with Mc Cain. And apparently his advisers told him to use those stories and not the Eastland one, he just didn't listen.

And it's not hard to see why actually. Biden has been openly talking about working with Eastland for a long time now, even before he was Obama's VP. This wasn't considered a big thing even 10 years ago. It does illustrate though how much the party has changed in our efforts to be more inclusive to all Americans that Biden hasn't quite clicked with yet.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#283254: Jun 21st 2019 at 6:13:06 PM

Incoming Pentagon nominations, as per the White House:

  • Mark Esper for Secretary of Defense
  • Ryan Mc Carthy for Secretary of the Army
  • David Norquist for Deputy Secretary of Defense

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283255: Jun 21st 2019 at 6:49:00 PM

It seems the brief period of Gaffe Free Biden is dead and gone.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#283256: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:10:26 PM

Biden won't win the election, he has proven time and again that he can't get progressives to like him. And little Trump has proven he is a God to the vast majority of Right Wing conservatives. So if he wins the nomination we may as well give the election to the monsters running the Right Wing.

Remember to vote for Biden to stay far away from the White House. We can't appeal to the other side, they have their deity and a moderate isn't going to take them away. We can't appeal to the moderates because they think "Both sides are like...the same man..." so at least pick someone who isn't willing to back down or work with people like Pence and Trump.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283257: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:12:49 PM

I still predict he'll win.

I just don't want it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#283258: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:19:29 PM

If he gets in I doubt he'll be anything but this generations John Kerry.Remember Kerry was sunk from stupid fake allegations in 2004, and in this more divided time Biden could easily lose from stupid allegations which have more truth to them.

[up]If he somehow won the presidency he would be better than any Republican, but...he is moderate enough that his mediocre polices would let another Republican win in four years. One who could be even worse than Trump.

Edited by Wildcard on Jun 21st 2019 at 1:21:06 PM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#283259: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:30:38 PM

I give Biden about a 50% chance to be the Democratic candidate, but I don't think he has good odds of beating Trump. Biden's just not exciting, and Trump will easily be able to take control of the narrative

If Biden does win I'd expect four years of nothing changing (he's admitted this) followed by another lunatic Republican winning

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#283260: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:35:09 PM

Biden's said nothing is going to change from Trump's administration when he wins?

I wasn't aware he was going keep putting kids in interment camps.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#283261: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:35:25 PM

Since I have little doubt Biden will be one of the finalists in the primaries, I'm at least hoping for Sanders to drop out asap.

As opposed to dragging things on and on long after it was obvious he had zero chance of winning, wasting everyone's time and money and riling everybody up.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#283262: Jun 21st 2019 at 10:45:39 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/06/21/day-883/

    Day 883: "Cocked and loaded." 
1/ Trump authorized a retaliatory military strike on Iran but called it off 10 minutes before because the response would not have been "proportionate." The planned attack, ordered after Iranian forces shot down a Navy drone over the Strait of Hormuz, would have involved airstrikes and killed approximately 150 people. Officials said Trump had initially approved the attacks. Earlier, Trump tweeted that he was "cocked and loaded" for a strike, but later disputed that, claiming "nothing was green lighted." (New York Times / New York Times / ABC News / NBC News / Wall Street Journal / Los Angeles Times / Bloomberg)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-ordered-military-strike-iran-reversed-sources/story?id=63853570

Putin said he's open for a meeting with Trump, but that a U.S. military conflict with Iran would be a "catastrophe." Putin added that he believed Iran was complying with its commitments to the Iran nuclear deal. Hours later, Trump tweeted that he was in "no hurry" to confront Iran and called off the planned airstrike. (Associated Press / ABC News)

https://www.apnews.com/2c1d6e923a7349e29daf0e00a956f2d8

The White House did not notify House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Trump's plans to strike Iran. Pelosi is second in line to the presidency. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosi-says-white-house-did-not-tell-her-about-iran-strike-plan/2019/06/21/bec74b3a-942e-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html

Fox & Friends called Trump's decision to abandon airstrikes against Iran a "weakness, and weakness begets more attacks." Hosts Brian Kilmeade insisted that "North Korea's watching. Turkey's watching. Russia's watching. China…" (Daily Beast)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-and-friends-calls-donald-trump-weak-tries-to-goad-him-into-war-with-iran

Iran received a message from Trump via Oman warning that an attack on Iran was imminent. Iranian officials said Trump claimed he was "against any war with Iran and wanted to talk to Tehran about various issues." They also said Trump "gave a short period of time to get our response but Iran's immediate response was that it is up to Supreme Leader." Another official said they would deliver Trump's message to the Ayatollah, "however, we told the Omani official that any attack against Iran will have regional and international consequences." (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-usa-oman-exclusive-idUSKCN1TM0UZ

2/ Trump directed ICE to conduct a mass roundup of migrant families that have received deportation orders. The Sunday raids – dubbed the "family op" – will take place in as many as 10 cities and could target about 2,000 immigrants facing deportation orders. (Washington Post / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/ice-launch-mass-raids-targeting-undocumented-families-sunday-n1020446

ICE has deported more immigrants during the first eight months of this fiscal year than any full fiscal year of Trump's presidency, but he has yet to match Obama's early deportation numbers. ICE deportations fell to 226,119 in fiscal 2017 and then rose to more than 250,000 in fiscal 2018 before the Trump administration hit a high of 282,242 as of June this fiscal year. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html

A legal team interviewed 60 children at a migrant detention facility near El Paso, TX and were told stories of neglect and mistreatment at the hands of the U.S. government. The lawyers warned that kids are forced to take care of other kids. There is also inadequate food, water, and sanitation for the 250 infants, children, and teens currently detained at the Border Patrol station. (Associated Press / NBC News)

https://apnews.com/46da2dbe04f54adbb875cfbc06bbc615

3/ Trump threatened a Time magazine reporter with prison after a photographer tried to take a photo of the letter sent to him by Kim Jong Un. Trump showed four reporters the letter he said was "written by Kim Jong Un" and then he asked to go off-the-record. Later in the interview, the subject turned to Robert Mueller's report on Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, and instead of answering the question, Trump lashed out about the photographer's attempt to take a shot of the letter from Kim. "Well, you can go to prison, instead, because if you use, if you use the photograph you took of the letter that I gave you…" (Time / CNN / Washington Post / Daily Beast)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/media/time-photographer-trump-threat/index.html

4/ Trump rejected an allegation by journalist E. Jean Carroll that he sexually assaulted her in a Manhattan department store dressing room in the 1990s, saying that he has "never met this person in my life." According to Carroll, she met Trump inside Bergdorf Goodman when he told her he was buying a gift for "a girl" and needed help. While in the lingerie section, Carroll said Trump suggested a lace bodysuit, and encouraged her to try it on. "The moment the dressing-room door is closed, he lunges at me, pushes me against the wall, hitting my head quite badly, and puts his mouth against my lips," Carroll writes. "He seizes both my arms and pushes me up against the wall a second time, and, as I become aware of how large he is, he holds me against the wall with his shoulder and jams his hand under my coat dress and pulls down my tights." More than a dozen women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct. Trump, meanwhile, said: "Shame on those who make up false stories of assault to try to get publicity for themselves, or sell a book, or carry out a political agenda." (New York Magazine / Politico / Daily Beast)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/21/trump-dismisses-new-sexual-assault-allegation-1376698

5/ The House Intelligence Committee issued a subpoena to Felix Sater after he failed to show up for a voluntary interview. The Russia-born business executive worked with Michael Cohen to build a Trump Tower in Moscow before the 2016 election. Trump never disclosed the ongoing Trump Tower Moscow negotiations while he was running for president and repeatedly claimed that he has "nothing to do with Russia." Sater said he was feeling ill and slept through his alarm. (Politico / NBC News / Reuters / The Hill)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sater-idUSKCN1TM1TY

YESTERDAY: Sater said he "will answer every question without exception" and planned to discuss previously undisclosed details about his efforts to get a Trump tower built in Moscow. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-will-answer-every-question-onetime-trump-business-partner-felix-sater-is-set-to-tell-house-panel-new-details-about-moscow-project/2019/06/20/754b9e8c-91d8-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html

Federal prosecutors alleged that Roger Stone violated his gag order with recent social media posts. Stone was banned by Judge Amy Berman Jackson from making public statements about his case in February, after he posted on Instagram a photo of the judge with crosshairs behind her head. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/roger-stone-gag-order-challenge/index.html

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283263: Jun 21st 2019 at 11:20:16 PM

I predict the finalists will be Warren, Sanders, and Biden with no one else mattering this election.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#283264: Jun 21st 2019 at 11:34:28 PM

Sanders may end up as a finalist, but I don't think he'll matter—He has a roughly 0% chance of actually winning now that there's actual Democrats with his policies

Someone I think people are underestimating is Buttigieg: He's a charismatic moderate, has a bit of minority cred, and doesn't appear to have the empty suit problem that Beto and Booker do. If Biden keeps having trouble with gaffes I'd expect the moderates to start moving towards mayor Pete

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#283265: Jun 21st 2019 at 11:35:50 PM

Buttigieg has done amazingly well considering how late he started compared to everyone else and how little anyone knew about him before the campaign.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#283266: Jun 22nd 2019 at 12:14:18 AM

I don't know if Buttigieg will win, but barring some major scandal or humiliation, I doubt this is the last we'll hear of him even if he loses.

Oh God! Natural light!
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#283267: Jun 22nd 2019 at 12:43:20 AM

There's no way he's going to win the nomination with all the gaffes he's been making with PoC.

Do not obey in advance.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#283268: Jun 22nd 2019 at 12:49:18 AM

@Wildcard: That seems unnecessarily pessimistic. In any case, I think a lot of what happens in the near future depends on whether or not Mitch Mc Connell remains in his position. Some news guys I was listening to earlier seemed to think he might be retiring soon, but this is the first I've heard of that. (Though I wouldn't be entirely surprised, he's kind of at that age you'd at least be considering it.)

A concerted effort to win the Senate is required, or the Democratic agenda is going to keep getting stonewalled. It's amazing to me that the Democrats don't seem to get that. Not in the sense that just about everyone seems to be running for president, but in the sense that there doesn't seem to be a lot of active recruitment of people into the Democratic party. Most of the energy seems to come from at least nominally non-partisan organizations like Run For Something.

[up]Eh, don't count him out yet. At least among older voters, he seems to have quite a bit of support. And when it's older people who most reliably vote, it tends to be them that matter.

Edited by AceofSpades on Jun 22nd 2019 at 2:51:22 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#283269: Jun 22nd 2019 at 1:14:37 AM

If Mc Connell does retire, who replaces him as Majority Leader?

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jun 22nd 2019 at 4:15:00 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#283270: Jun 22nd 2019 at 1:22:23 AM

Each party in each chamber of Congress elects their leaders at the beginning of each Congress, which is the the first work day in January the year after the mid-term/Presidential election years. Kinda the same thing as the Speaker of the House, but within each party.

If a Senate Leader retires mid-term (either willingly or not), then the same thing happens.

Right now it's pretty much up in the air who would become the Republican Senate Leader if Mc Connell retires.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#283271: Jun 22nd 2019 at 1:23:19 AM

Call me a jerk, but the idea of the Evil Turtle retiring is Too Good to Be True in its purest form, especially given the lack of evidence.

I have some doubts that these gaffes will have any major effect. A lot of Democrats tend to prioritize other aspects and the kind of people who take major issue are overrepresented in this thread but are not a dominant part of the Democratic Party.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#283272: Jun 22nd 2019 at 1:32:07 AM

On a seperate note, Mc Connell is currently the longest serving Senate Republican Leader since the post was incepted, edging out Bob Dole, and if he doesn't run for reelection and becomes Republican Leader again, he'll match Robert Byrd, Alben Barkley, and Harry Reid in terms served.

On another note, I don't think Mc Connell will plan to give up his actual Senate seat anytime soon. Leadership? Probably, but I think he'll want to hold out for as long as possible.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#283273: Jun 22nd 2019 at 2:58:26 AM

He'll probably keep at the strings, just have someone be the face of it.

"You can reply to this Message!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#283274: Jun 22nd 2019 at 6:39:41 AM

With Biden's "nothing will change", saying that he'd keep the child jailing policy is a huge stretch - he was talking to wealthy donors when he made the comment, and was in the context of wealth disparity... which is still an awful look.

“By the way, you know, remember I got in trouble with some of the people on my team, on the Democratic side, because I said, ‘You know what I’ve found is rich people are just as patriotic as poor people.’ Not a joke. I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money.''

“The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change.”

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#283275: Jun 22nd 2019 at 6:54:08 AM

Which is weird because he also already said he'd repeal Trump's tax cut. Biden has this habit of saying whatever the room wants to hear.


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