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AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#283051: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:23:24 PM

[up][up][up] I...bwuh? Outside of a few groups I'm aware of, religious politics tends from what I've seen to play mostly on the Right.

I'm honestly as curious as to where you think religious politics became a huge thing on the Left as well as how it apparently is actively trying to push atheism down?

Edit: [nja]

So, 2/10 pagetopper.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jun 19th 2019 at 12:24:09 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#283052: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:24:08 PM

There’s Reverend Dr. Barber for starters, not to mention his most famous religious left predecessor the Reverend Dr. MLK.

The Poor People’s Campaign had a big event this week. They’re very anti-war, pro-environment, pro-healthcare, anti-poverty, etc. And they’re a faith based group.

Edited by wisewillow on Jun 19th 2019 at 9:27:28 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#283053: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:25:57 PM

Though not uniform, I'd imagine the religious left is more tolerant to people not sharing their beliefs than the religious right.

I'm not religious, but the insinuation does sound like it would be a bit insulting to those who are.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:26:40 AM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#283054: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:33:03 PM

[up][up] Yeah, the Poor People's Campaign was the main group I was thinking about.

[up] Well, M84 did bring up that atheists and agnostics do tend to be distrusted, statistically at least some of those people would need to be on the Left side of things.

I'm just more baffled at the idea that the Religious Left is suddenly back in vogue again. I remember a conversation on these very forums just a few months ago asking why the Religious Left were not a major political group anymore, so the idea that the RL has enough clout to single-handedly marginalize atheism is...uh...

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jun 19th 2019 at 12:33:33 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#283055: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:37:36 PM

Also Bernie has admitted he doesn’t really practice Judaism, so he’s sorta atheist adjacent?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283056: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:38:51 PM

Forgive me, but since when did the Religious Left have any kind of presence?

Always, the Religious Right is a minority (a large minority but most Christians tend to be on the Moderate or Centrist side than allied with the GOP). Part of this being due to the fact that it hates all Catholics (not a left leaning organization et all but part of the sign that its definition of "Christian" is limited to WASPS) and is radically exclusionary. It's also a product of the 1970s picking up the slack from the Pro-Segregation Churches allying with Nixon's party.

It is incredibly wealthy from fleecing its followers and working hand in pocket with the GOP but its a Scam Religion and irritating to a huge extent. My church and I have to picket them all the time.

Part of the issue is the fact that the Religious Left are genuinely of the opinion that churches should stay out of politics. The vast majority of churches involved in the Hunger Drives in Kentucky, for example, think that protesting the state government is a misuse of their mandate.

I shit you not.

Its frustrating because I generally agree that churches have no place in government but that just means the churches that shouldn't be involved in politics are the only ones.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 19th 2019 at 9:46:01 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#283057: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:45:37 PM

I don't think the issue is so much the "religious left" per se, as it is religious people who are Democrats or unaffiliated. They may not be on board with the greedy racist right-wing religious morons, but would still be challenged by a candidate who would not agree that a major component of their worldview even exists.

Edited by Eschaton on Jun 19th 2019 at 9:48:27 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#283058: Jun 19th 2019 at 9:57:45 PM

@Azure Paladin

Sorry about that. As I mentioned earlier I concede it's a pretty clumsy analogue in the first place.

The Religious Left with capital letters has more of a presence in places like Latin America, such as with leaders like Oscar Romero and other such Liberation Theologists, who see social justice and religious faith as part and parcel. In the US they tend to go for a more secular and multiculuturalist approach, where religion itself takes a backseat. Usually more appropriate to describe them as the religious Left with a lower-case "r" or Religious Center -Left in terms of religious groups that openly take progressive stands in politics.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#283059: Jun 19th 2019 at 10:01:19 PM

Most churches I've been to are generally...kinda cynical of capitalism. Even the really conservative ones.

Actually, I'd say it's mostly that churches I've been to kind of have an axe to grind with society in general.

Leviticus 19:34
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#283060: Jun 19th 2019 at 10:40:18 PM

Yeah the religious left in the US are actually two groups, people with right-wing religious beliefs who vote democrat for other reasons (often race) and people with left-wing religious beliefs.

The two groups have very different perspectives on the world, even though they’re both religious groups who vote for democrat candidates.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283061: Jun 19th 2019 at 10:49:30 PM

The Propserity Gospel was created by the GOP because otherwise they'd have a religion that advocates that the rich are evil, war is bad, and that everyone is equal.

It's COMMUNIST, that's what I say.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#283062: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:00:40 PM

Are you suggesting that a religion founded on the teaching of an anti-banker, healthcare giving, establishment upsetting, middle-eastern, Jew might not naturally align with the GOP agenda if the religions original teachings were followed?

How absurd. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#283063: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:03:40 PM

Yeah, they're just ignoring the Jewish part.

Trying to make an exception or something.

Believe me, I've dealt with people who go, "Well, the Apostles don't count as Jewish."

:p

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#283064: Jun 20th 2019 at 4:09:23 AM

RE: [1]

And this is exactly why the Religious Right has far more power, influence, and notoriety than its left-wing counterpart.

The Religious Left is like grass. It exists, but no one acknowledges it.

i'm tired, my friend
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#283065: Jun 20th 2019 at 4:10:22 AM

Part of the issue is the fact that the Religious Left are genuinely of the opinion that churches should stay out of politics.

Ooh, look. You described me.

Now then, when a political issue becomes a moral issue, that's one thing. I don't believe in NOT calling people and actions out if they happen to be politicians. But if Mr Preacher Man goes up and says "vote for this guy" or starts making jibes at a politial party then that's crossing a line and using the pulpit's influence in a way it should not be used.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#283066: Jun 20th 2019 at 6:53:25 AM

Iran says it's 'completely ready for war' after US military confirms it shot down American drone

In a major provocation, Iran shot down an unarmed and unmanned U.S. RQ-4A Global Hawk drone while it was flying in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz Thursday, U.S. Central Command confirmed in a statement.

The incident is sure to trigger serious discussions within the Trump administration about how to respond to a direct attack on a U.S. military asset that goes beyond recent attacks in the Middle East that the U.S. has blamed on Iran.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#283067: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:23:21 AM

It's sounding more and more like we've passed the point of no return for war in Iran.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#283068: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:26:03 AM

The big question with the drone being shot down will be whether it was in Iranian airspace, as Iran says, or over international waters, as the US claims.

It’s worth noting that in several incidents with Iran, including the US blowing up the Iranian passenger jet during the Reagan era and the British sailors detained by Iran some years ago, the western countries in question vigorously proclaimed that they had been in international waters only to later admit that they had been in Iranian territory. (In one case pretty deeply inside Iranian territory, iirc.)

Then again, between Iranian hardliners and Bolton and Pompeo on the US side, we may be fucked regardless.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#283069: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:31:50 AM

Oh god, please no. That would literally be the worst thing. Countless loss of human life, billions of dollars spent on nothing, and a big popularity boost for the war-time president.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#283070: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:32:14 AM

>It's sounding more and more like we've passed the point of no return for war in Iran.

Nowhere near,the point of 'no return' is when they start actually starting fighting,Iran saying it could take them on is bluster,they know a war against the US could mean defeat,their logic is that if you puff yourself up the aggressor will leave you alone,and they'll keep this because its the best option they have

Edited by Ultimatum on Jun 20th 2019 at 2:32:48 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#283071: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:43:50 AM

We're not past the point of no return yet, but this is serious.

The NYT has reported that the USA have drawn up plans to ship well over a hundred thousand troops in the case of a crisis. Now, logistics dictate that we will likely not attack before a large number of reinforcements arrive, something we'd hopefully hear about and not have it classified.

[up][up] I'm not sure how popular a war would be right now, but the loss in human life would be catastrophic. War Is Hell, and trying to occupy that amount of land is going to be a nightmare for the people that live there.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#283072: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:47:14 AM

From the article, they said they’re not going to be the ones to declare war, but are “ready” for war in the case that it does happen.

Seems like they’re trying to goad the US, or something, which is baffling. A show of bravado or trying to get the US to play chicken? Obviously all-out war with the US puts them firmly on the losing side. They know that.

Oof, we’ve had more than enough conflict in the region. We really don’t need this. I just hope the cabinet sees the bigger picture.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#283073: Jun 20th 2019 at 7:58:51 AM

[up][up]I mean, I'd be concerned if the Pentagon didn't have contingency plans to send a large unit to a potential crisis zone, but I do agree that until they actually start deploying, anyone saying that war is imminent is engaging in hyperbole.

I'll be surprised if there aren't airstrikes on key Iranian installations though.

I also believe that a war wouldn't be very popular (barring a really big attack that kills a lot of Americans), the US public has lost their taste for interventionism over Iraq. They need time to forget (or another Gulf War style one-sided affair to make them pull a 180).

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jun 20th 2019 at 12:00:15 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#283074: Jun 20th 2019 at 8:27:45 AM

So declare war next June and make sure that Iran is theoretically occupied by November, destroy most of the country's infrastructure and then get out.

It might win Trump the election, and he doesn't need to worry about the long-term consequences of leaving behind a wrecked country without any kind of nation-building whatsoever.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#283075: Jun 20th 2019 at 8:30:35 AM

I don't know if it's gonna win him an election with the current public opinion towards war in Iran

Oh really when?

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