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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282976: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:59:07 PM

Oof, seems Biden told a massive whopper at that rally, too - in short, he promised to cure cancer under his Presidency. Can't help but wonder if that'll be his version of "I created the Internet" for his run.

[down]

While true, it's a hell of an overpromise, similar to promising to cure AIDS/HIV or... well, any other ailment, really. It's something you absolutely can't guarantee - you can guarantee more funding for research that could lead to a cure, but that's not the same thing (nor as catchy) as a guarantee to cure it. It's also the kind of promise that is very much "establishment", and the same kind that a Sleazy Politician would make, even if it were genuinely meant.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 19th 2019 at 4:09:01 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#282977: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:01:08 PM

He's been saying that for awhile now, actually.

Curing cancer is a serious passion issue for Biden.

Edited by Parable on Jun 19th 2019 at 1:02:33 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#282978: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:12:35 PM

Concerning that Biden Link somebody posted a page ago or so: Seriously, nothing surprises me anymore.

Biden might as well be Trump's brother, as far as I'm concerned. Why is this guy even a democrat?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282979: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:14:23 PM

[up]

Going that far is genuinely unfair, as Trump is actively hurtful - Biden is just buying wholly into the Golden Mean Fallacy here, which makes me far less enthused at the idea of him being the nominee.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282980: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:14:56 PM

...One really isn't comparable to the other. Like, disliking Biden is fine, but perspective.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282981: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:15:31 PM

Sanders has commented on Warren's growing momentum, his response was to a politico article about how centrists are flocking to Warren:

The cat is out of the bag. The corporate wing of the Democratic Party is publicly "anybody but Bernie." They know our progressive agenda of Medicare for All, breaking up big banks, taking on drug companies and raising wages is the real threat to the billionaire class.

So now Sanders is pretty clearly saying that Warren is a puppet of the Party's Corporate wing. Which is so goddamn infuriating, Warren is just as progressive as Sanders is. She's jsut willing to provide substantive policy and commit to being a Democrat.

That's terrible, I hope her momentum continues to grow so he can shown that he isn't the fucking messiah.

...One really isn't comparable to the other. Like, disliking Biden is fine, but perspective.

Indeed.

I find a quote from MLK to be quite pertinent.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice [...]

Biden is significantly more simlar to the White Moderate, Trump is the White Citizen Counciler.

So Biden is well worth disparaging but we shouldn't lose perspective.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 19th 2019 at 1:18:23 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#282982: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:26:14 PM

Ugh, Sanders is already trying to set up the whole elections were rigged shit again.

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#282983: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:26:29 PM

That King quote is a little outdated though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282984: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:28:12 PM

True, but White Moderate is a specific ideological position. White Voters becoming more progressive simply means there are fewer White Moderates, not that they aren't a stumbling block to racial equality.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#282985: Jun 19th 2019 at 1:59:35 PM

...Why did this thread like Sanders again?

Seriously, I never got why so many people in OTC apparently loved Sanders back in the day.

This populist garbage he's been spewing since practically day one was a huge fucking red flag to me.

Edited by M84 on Jun 19th 2019 at 5:00:23 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282986: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:04:53 PM

[up]

In my case, because he'd actually have agitated towards getting the Overton Window pushed leftward, while Clinton was more "business-as-usual", which is naive as hell when the GOP is being led by McConnell.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 19th 2019 at 5:05:59 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#282987: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:08:12 PM

While I disagree with Sanders, I respect him in a way that just isn't true for the other Democratic Presidential candidates. There is a lot of stuff to like about him if you aren't on my side of things.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#282988: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:19:14 PM

This thread never liked Sanders, there’s generally been one or two people who float by that like Sanders, but the thread genrally has always been largely against him.

The thread however I think has always liked the broad goals that Sanders has pushed, but at times it’s been hard to split the man from the mission, the strong support that Warren has here rather shows that this thread likes Sanders (broad) ideas, just not him personally.

This thread has generally been very anti-Sanders the man, in part I think because some people did believe the hype for a time and reacted strongly to seeing that Sanders is a very flawed man.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282989: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:22:19 PM

This place is probably the place where I'd see the most Sanders hate. I mentioned before that it seems like an Americans Hate Tingle thing here.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282990: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:22:26 PM

Black lawmakers get Biden's back amid 'segregationist' uproar

Obviously you can still disagree with them, but interesting nonetheless.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282991: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:22:39 PM

This thread has generally been very anti-Sanders the man, in part I think because some people did believe the hype for a time and reacted strongly to seeing that Sanders is a very flawed man.

This is pretty much exactly my position.

I liked Sanders at first but he never really changed his message which began to cause me to sour on him. And then, of course, he's done his various clueless or otherwise thoughtless statements and I became more hostile to him.

Black lawmakers get Biden's back amid 'segregationist' uproar

Obviously you can still disagree with them, but interesting nonetheless.

I don't understand why they would tolerate this.

Whatever, they're wrong. No one should brag about working with segregationists, it's simply another sign of how terrible Biden is.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 19th 2019 at 2:26:11 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282992: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:23:52 PM

Populism is a dirty word around here except that it has nothing to do with policies.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282993: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:25:20 PM

I personally didn't have a preference for either Sanders or Hillary for most of the race, until the end where it seemed like he and his supporters were getting more and more full of themselves.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#282994: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:40:37 PM

Today the House passed a defense authorization bill which ialso included a repeal of 2001's Authorization for Use of Military Force.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282995: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:58:50 PM

Populism should be a dirty word. It doesn’t accomplish much.

They should have sent a poet.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#282996: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:59:40 PM

I can't believe any leftist would see more centrists being attracted to leftist policies as a bad thing, unless they're accelerationists who want to be a Doomed Moral Victor, dogmatic extremists who see centrists as the enemynote , or just plain sour grapes. It's not like Warren said she'd water down her goals in order to appease them, it just means what she's offering sounds appealing enough that maybe the Overton Window is legitimately shifting. And those are the words straight from Sanders' mouth, which makes it extra hard to dismiss as people with an axe to grudge. It's made me lose a ton of sympathy for him.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 19th 2019 at 6:01:32 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282997: Jun 19th 2019 at 3:01:40 PM

Populism is the appeal to ordinary people that feel ignored by the existing rulers. The New Deal was founded on the prinicple of populism and it achieved a lot of good even if Roosevelt crossed the Moral Event Horizon for me in WW2 with Japanese internment.

Mind you, I feel your opinion of it depends greatly if you feel ordinary people have been ignored by the establishment if not are outright dying because of it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 19th 2019 at 3:02:23 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282998: Jun 19th 2019 at 3:21:59 PM

I don't consider populism to be inherently negative, but it is by its very nature vulnerable to Othering and Anti-intellectualism.

I would in no way be surprised if more often then not populism causes more harm then it solves.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282999: Jun 19th 2019 at 4:17:10 PM

I find the automatic dismissal of populism very prone to the idea that "THOSE people" don't know enough to be allowed to vote properly.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#283000: Jun 19th 2019 at 4:26:48 PM

My criticism of populism is that appealing to the lowest common denominator makes for very poor real world policies.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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