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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282951: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:35:05 AM

[up]

I think he means "better than nothing" in regards to candidates that have no specific economic proposals or, worse, have economic policies identical to all the ones already tried that has led to vast income inequality across all boards, not just racial ones.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282952: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:35:18 AM

Yes.

We have and it won't help nearly as well.

And the other candidates will not help at all.

That's completely incorrect, pretty much every Democratic candidate supports universalist policies of one form or another.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:35:57 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282953: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:35:59 AM

Hence the support for Warren. She’s a far better option than Sanders.

And I’ll point out that other candidates are addressing these issues as well.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:36:41 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282954: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:37:06 AM

Exactly, she has the same extensive universalist policies that Sanders supports but with more focus on minorities and much more substance in-general.

Though, Charles has said that he supports her so I highly doubt he'll disagree with us in regards to this.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:37:52 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282955: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:38:09 AM

That's completely incorrect, pretty much every Democratic candidate supports universalist policies of one form or another.

And they're not nearly enough.

It's like global warming.

The actions needed to be done are major not small and we passed the small part a long time ago.

Though, Charles has said that he supports her so I highly doubt he'll disagree with us in regards to this.

It basically goes like this to me.

Warren = Massive infrastructure reform, economic aid to the destitute + Minority focused programs.

Sanders = Massive infrastructure reform, economic aid to the destitute

Everyone else = Band-Aids to Middle Class and some fig leaves

It's genuinely frustrating to see Sanders not realizing how much better off his campaign would be with Warren-esque ideas on race.

But he's the second pick for the fact he'd deal with stuff that has otherwise destroyed rural economies because he will save lots of lives that otherwise won't be saved.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:41:08 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#282956: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:40:14 AM

What policies are we talking about here? What specific plans from each candidate are we looking at the merits of?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282957: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:41:20 AM

I have to be honest Charles, you keep saying you're not particularly enthusiastic about Sanders, but almost everything else you say besides that gives me the exact opposite impression.

If you like the guy, just say it. I feel like that alone would sort of mitigate these discussions that keep popping up with you.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#282958: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:45:24 AM

What other minority focus plans does Warren have other then the promotion of Black entrepreneurship?

Was she one of the ones to bring up the reperations issue that’s now being debated?

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282959: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:46:12 AM

Even that’s not really true, because Warren actually has concrete plans and Sanders doesn’t really seem to have any idea how he’d accomplish his proposals.

I’ll also point out that there are more ways to fix inequality than Sanders-style socialism, which is something his supporters don’t seem to understand.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:47:46 AM

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282960: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:50:14 AM

CT PHIPPS POLITICS EXPLAINED

I voted for Hillary in 2016 but I was generally behind Sanders for the majority of the election because I live in an economically depressed region and have seen the massive suffering going on. I've also visited the Rust Belt cities for missionary efforts and to meet with friends where the conditions are appalling.

Warren has been someone I've consistently supported well before she announced her candidacy and I think she is by far better qualified as a candidate than everyone else. I don't mean that by degrees, I mean it by kind. I did not like Hillary's economic policies or her foreign policies and I love everything Warren has said.

I believe Biden is going to win the Primaries and have said so because the Democratic Party leadership and a lot of the Democratic voters (especially older ones) are afraid of the radical reform that Warren and Sanders represent. Which sickens me.

He's gone from being 3rd or 4th Candidate to my least favorite.

Generally, I feel like Sanders needs to be defended because whenever people criticize his policies, it feels like it comes from a place of economic privilege. They talk about dying industries, how it's not perfect, or whatnot but I wonder how many people know people who have lost their homes, been reduced to destitution, or have been drug addicted or killed because life has become impossible to live normally.

Sanders does talk a language that I speak and I am eager to here more from because the situation in the Rust Belt and Appalachia is horrifying. Warren is the best candidate but I'd be okay with Sanders—and I feel like the criticism of him doesn't incorporate the needs of the bottom 13.5%. Those Americans living below the poverty level.

I am not a 1 issue voter but of my 3 issues, I choose the poor as my primary one (which Sanders and Warrens are the only two people who seem to appreciate the magnitude of the problem—and it is frustrating as fuck Sanders doesn't grasp that he needs to address racism to really fix it versus half-assing it).

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:51:33 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282961: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:51:15 AM

Pretty much ALL of Warren’s plans include aspects targeted at systemic racism. For example, her college plan includes dedicating more funds to historic black and other minority colleges, and it also has provisions that would regulate for-profit colleges that take advantage of mostly vulnerable minority students.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282962: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:52:29 AM

I’ll also point out that there are more ways to fix inequality than Sanders-style socialism, which is something his supporters don’t seem to understand.

I'm not against Sanders-style socialism and definitely think we need more of that either way.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282963: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:55:33 AM

I feel like the criticism of him doesn't incorporate the needs of the bottom 13.5%

And the economic policy Sanders is pushing isn’t going to be doing all that much for those people. That feels like a radical misunderstanding of the criticisms of him.

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#282964: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:56:59 AM

Remember, the Oval Office isn't everything. I can't see a more moderate Democratic President (ie; someone who isn't Warren or Sanders) going around and vetoing progressive policies and reforms. They have an impact, but getting a moderate/center-left President hardly heralds the end of progress for another 4/8 years.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282965: Jun 19th 2019 at 11:59:36 AM

And the economic policy Sanders is pushing isn’t going to be doing all that much for those people. That feels like a radical misunderstanding of the criticisms of him.

Yeah, I feel his critics don't understand a lot of what he's saying and irrationally prejudiced against the man's work.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#282966: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:03:34 PM

> Biden's legacy really is a dumpster fire.

I scarcely call it a legacy,more like a..

series of unfortunate events

Comedy of errors

catalogue of failures

you get the idea

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282967: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:03:45 PM

[up][up] No offense, but that’s kind of a conversation-ending position to hold. You can dismiss any criticism without a thought like that.

People understand his policies. That’s why they’re criticizing them. Middle class, “whites first” socialism isn’t adequate to help the destitute.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 19th 2019 at 12:03:58 PM

They should have sent a poet.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#282968: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:07:08 PM

A weird but real point against both Warren and Sanders, but affects Warren more than Sanders: If either of them become President, the Democrats lose a senator, which makes it that much harder to gain control of it. This a bigger problem for Warren because it's pretty unlikely that Vermont would elect a Republican to replace Sanders.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282969: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:15:22 PM

so, it seems that Warren is the frontrunner of support here, but what about second choices? Anyone have another candidate they still like, even if not as much?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282970: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:16:12 PM

Uh.

Uhm.

... Julian Castro actually seems pretty solid I guess? Really like his lead plan and his police reform plan.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#282971: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:16:13 PM

[up][up][up]Massachusetts is unlikely to elect another Republican. We're not going to nominate Martha Coakley a third time, and there's really no one in the Massachusetts GOP who would be an electable choice. Now, it's likely that Governor Baker would nominate a Republican, but that would trigger an immediate special election. The 2010 election that inflicted Scott Brown upon America was midway through Ted Kennedy's last, unfinished term.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 19th 2019 at 3:18:02 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#282972: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:17:42 PM

So, the Colorado Democrats were going to establish voting days a holiday. But they suddenly decided to scrap those plans. The reason? They realized that such a move would very likely lead to unintended consequences, specifically lower voter turnout. Which may seem counterintuitive but the reason for that is that a national holiday would cover everyone, including the people manning infrastructure critical to electoral politics such as libraries, transit lines, community centers, etc.

This, unsurprisingly, soured the Democrats on the idea.

It's just an interesting example of how common sense things like holidays on the days of elections can have unintended consequences.

I have mixed feelings about this.

We have a comprehensive mail-in ballot system. A couple months in advance, we mail out packets to all registered voters. The packet includes their ballot as well as a comprehensive booklet explaining the ins and outs of each bill on the ballot. There's little need for anyone in our state to go physically vote in person, beyond tradition.

So on the one hand, I'm not sure how much it would actually hurt our electoral process to not have those infrastructure employees manning their stations; most people have already turned in their ballots by that point anyway.

But on the other, I'm not sure how much it would actually benefit our electoral process to make "Absolute final last chance to drop off yo ballot, ya lazy procrastinators!" into an actual holiday. The whole concept of voting day in Colorado is really just a deadline.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 19th 2019 at 1:19:24 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#282973: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:21:24 PM

For all my issues with Sanders, I can't see Vermont electing a Republican to the Senate, not in such a polarized environment.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#282974: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:41:20 PM

Massachusetts is blue enough that it's relatively unlikely for another Republican senator to take her seat if she wins. It's the reason a lot of my more conservative family members stay at home on election day, because they feel it'd be a wasted vote.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#282975: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:55:15 PM

@Unintended consequences: That was an issue raised when California passed a bill saying candidates had to release their tax returns before being allowed on the ballot. The argument being that if Trump isn't on the ballot, then turnout will be depressed since people won't need to turn out to vote against him, which will affect down ballot races.


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