TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282901: Jun 18th 2019 at 12:53:10 PM

Well, in Viewers Are Morons news, a Kaiser Family Foundation survey found that about 70% of people don't really "get" what Medicare-For-All does, as that many think that they'd still pay premiums and deductibles, and 54% think employers would continue to pay insurance costs. The only thing most of them (78%) got right was the belief that taxes would increase to pay for it.

A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll released Tuesday found that majorities of those polled have mistaken views about the government-run program backed by Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who is a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination. Nearly seven in 10 Americans think they would continue to pay deductibles and co-pays under Medicare for All, Kaiser found, when in fact they would not. And some 54% wrongly believe that individuals and employers would continue to pay premiums.

Almost the same share think those who currently get health insurance through their jobs or buy it on their own would be able to keep their plans, when in fact the current proposals would essentially do away with private insurance altogether.

But there is one aspect of Medicare for All that the vast majority of those polled understand very well: Some 78% say that taxes would increase for most people under such a plan, which is in fact likely to happen.

And since I snagged a page-topper, I'll mention this bit of news again - Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan is officially out of both consideration and the position, due in part to an FBI background check uncovering allegations of striking his ex-wife in a domestic dispute 9 years ago. At the moment, it's unclear whether it was reciprocal or if she struck him instead, as she was arrested for domestic violence with the charges later being dropped (whether by Shanahan or police is, again, unclear).

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 18th 2019 at 4:00:38 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282902: Jun 18th 2019 at 12:56:15 PM

If I'm being honest, I've never been really clear on what "Medicare-for-All" would entail, either. Could someone explain it.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#282903: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:06:39 PM

[up] Medicare is Public Health Insurance, only for those over the age of 65, and is paid for by Payroll Taxes. Medicare-for-all means that literally everyone, not just Senior Citizens, would have access to this Insurance, without the need for Employment (as most Private Insurers only cover those with Jobs).

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282904: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:08:16 PM

Felony Charges Dismissed Against Miami Cop Who Shot Black Caregiver With Arms Raised

A North Miami police officer who shot the caregiver of an autistic man in distress, even though the caregiver was lying on the ground with his hands raised in the air, has been convicted on a misdemeanor charge of culpable negligence but has escaped a felony conviction. A jury on Monday dismissed two attempted manslaughter charges against the officer, according to the Miami Herald.

...

The 2016 incident, part of which was captured in a video that went viral afterward, sparking outrage over the shooting of yet another black man who posed no threat to the police, began when a 23-year-old man with autism named Arnaldo Rios Soto wandered away from a Miami-area mental health center. Charles Kinsey, a 47-year-old therapist from Soto’s group home, caught up to Soto at the side of a road. A passing driver saw Soto, who was holding a toy truck, and called the police, believing the man was holding a gun to his head.

When police arrived, several officers soon realized that neither Soto nor Kinsey posed a threat and that the reported gun was just a toy. Kinsey shouted to the police, “all he has is a toy truck.” He also laid down on the street, arms above his head, begging them not to shoot. At the time of the shooting, Soto was sitting next to Kinsey, still holding the toy.

The officer, Jonathan Aledda, 33, fired three times from around 50 yards away, hitting Kinsey, who later recovered, in the thigh.

Many who watched the video were skeptical that anyone could have perceived that Kinsey or Soto posed any danger, and prosecutors said Aledda had been reckless, ignoring all warnings from other officers and indications that the scenario was not a dangerous one, according to the Herald.

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#282905: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:08:35 PM

Politifact: Medicare for All: What it is, what it isn't

What is Medicare for All? Sanders’ idea of Medicare for All would be a single, national health insurance program that would cover everyone who lives in the United States. In the bill he introduced in 2017, it would pay for every medically necessary service, from routine doctor visits to surgery to mental health to prescription drugs. Dental and vision care are part of the package, too. The details on long-term care might vary between the Senate and House versions, but broadly speaking, nursing home and related care grow under both proposals.

The government would set payment rates for services, drugs and medical equipment. Each year, the secretary of Health and Human Services would determine a national budget for all covered services and spending would be limited by that cap. For individuals, there would be no costs — no deductibles, no copays or coinsurance. The two exceptions would be for some prescription drugs — though that would be limited to $200 a year — and possibly for long-term care.

It would replace all other insurance, with limited exceptions, such as cosmetic surgery. Employer-provided insurance, Medicaid and ultimately Medicare would all disappear.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#282906: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:09:18 PM

@LSBK: The existing federal program, Medicare, which currently covers mostly retirees, would be expanded to cover all persons in the nation. Summarized very briefly:

  • All private health insurance, including employer-subsidized plans, would end.
  • Medicaid would (probably) end; this is a detail that would need to be worked out.
  • Everyone would gain the coverage and benefits of the existing Medicare insurance program.
  • Instead of paying insurance premiums and paying a Medicare tax, all taxpayers would pay a single rate for health insurance as part of their taxes.

Edit: very ninjaed

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 18th 2019 at 4:09:54 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282907: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:14:56 PM

RE: Kinsey Shooting

Just... HOW?! Seriously, the asshole shot from behind other officers, jeopardizing other uniformed personnel, and yet he somehow got fucking acquitted?!

Edit: Apparently he might still have a "culpable negligence" charge to answer for, which carries a maximum sentence of... a year. And he could still be a police officer, since that's a misdemeanor.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 18th 2019 at 4:19:11 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282908: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:28:45 PM

Basically his attorneys argued he was confused and scared and it’s a totally reasonable oopsy. Y’know. Assuming he needs to shoot someone that even all the other cops didn’t think was a threat. Cause that’s not egregious and reckless and the opposite of responsible use of police force and a gun.

Cops are allowed to jump at (often racist and/or ableist) shadows and civilians pay the price in blood.

Edited by wisewillow on Jun 18th 2019 at 1:31:08 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#282909: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:32:14 PM

This is, like, third-hand information, but I read on a different forum that in police training, when you shoot a black man, all you have to do was say "I feared for my life" and you can get off mostly (if not completely) scot-free.

i'm tired, my friend
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#282910: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:32:17 PM

This is the real ugly truth, the base problem with police violence isn’t lack of evidence, if isn’t an unwillingness to prosecute when evidence exists, it’s the fact that a lot of Americans are okay with cops shooting unarmed people who are begging for their lives.

It doesn’t matter how many body-cams are put on cops, how many independent prosecutors are bought in, because in the end a lot of Americans are okay with innocent people getting shot simply because a cop wanted to shoot them.

[up] It’s not a defence specific to black men, it just comes up most common with them because a lot of cops have a racist fear of black men, so they’re being honest when they said they were afraid.

Having a baseless, unreasonable (and often racist) fear for your life isn’t a licence to shoot someone, unless you’re a cop.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 18th 2019 at 8:34:09 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282911: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:33:32 PM

The legal standard is also egregious. “Reasonable fear” for the officer’s safety is all you need. And to a mostly or all white jury, that includes “gee, I thought that Black man was reaching for a gun so I shot first.” Nevermind that officers regularly bring in violent armed white men without a scratch on them.

[down]

Spotlight: in a study of cops’ Facebook accounts, 1 in 5 had posted racist, violent content.

That article is a couple weeks old and very on point.

Edited by wisewillow on Jun 18th 2019 at 1:45:26 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#282912: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:41:24 PM

[up][up]I mean, I have no reason to believe at least some cops aren't just lying when they say that.

Think about it. If I'm a white supremacist, and I learn that I can join my city's police force and shoot innocent black men, and all I have to do to get away with it is say I was scared, you think I'm not gonna take that up?

i'm tired, my friend
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#282913: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:45:34 PM

[up]

Not to mention the recent Phoenix incident, in which the cops were using language reminiscent of gang members on an unarmed couple with children, but downplayed every aspect of it in their official report. Were it not for the cell phone footage, the truth could easily have been swept under the rug, as the Phoenix PD don't have bodycams.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#282914: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:46:19 PM

White supremicists don’t tend to have that much forethought, I suspect it’s more that they’re a white supremacist and as such have irrational beliefs about black people, one such belief is that black people are murder machines, they join the police because they want to ‘protect’ white people from black people, then when they see a black person they assume that said person is a threat and genuinely fear for their safety.

Racism induced fear shouldn’t be a defence, but it is.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 18th 2019 at 8:47:09 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#282915: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:52:37 PM

I get what Silaws is saying. I could inagine a cop shooting an unarmed white guy and getting away with it with the same defense.

That just basically never comes up because there's no society wide, ittational fear of all white men that gets them to act that way so it doesn't come up.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282916: Jun 18th 2019 at 3:09:02 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
They should have sent a poet.
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282918: Jun 18th 2019 at 3:39:05 PM

The KKK infiltrate the police all the time in my area.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#282919: Jun 18th 2019 at 6:26:50 PM

[up]I confess, my first thought is "Infiltrate or enlist?" "Infiltrate" implies they have to hide their membership.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#282920: Jun 18th 2019 at 6:32:47 PM

@archonspeaks: Regarding harassment stops, will they even need to intend to go before a judge when they do them?

If the intention is to intimidate and harass a community (or create a pretext for a shooting that a jury will laugh off), then they can do that without ever creating an actionable 4th Amendment issue. And if they're operating off a random Trump tweet, some ICE dudes might just want to "look busy" by harassing people.

Or, for that matter, "you look like a drug dealer, you <slur redacted>, and you probably bought those gold chains with drug money. Thanks for the bonus!" That's legal again, you know (and while the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 against excessive seizures, you still have to take the feds to court to fight a seizure).

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#282921: Jun 18th 2019 at 6:44:57 PM

All private health insurance, including employer-subsidized plans, would end.

That depends on exactly what MFA covers and how much is available. For example, right now Medicare doesn't generally cover dental, so MFA would create a market for dental care insurance.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282922: Jun 18th 2019 at 7:05:32 PM

[up][up] I mean, if you’re asking whether it’s possible for police to abuse their authority the answer is obviously yes. Anyone with authority can abuse it and police have a lot of authority.

Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean there can be any follow through if the original stop is no good. Cases and summonses get thrown out all the time because the officer can’t articulate a reasonable suspicion after the fact, which is the minimum standard for a Terry stop.

And given that having cases thrown out for bad stops is one of the best ways to get in trouble, either with a department complaint board or a civil court, and that departments are getting much better about punishing people, the racial gap in enforcement has steadily been closing. Compared to 10 or even 5 years ago it’s at an all time low, though it’s spiked back up under Trump. The same is true in the context of immigration enforcement.

I’ll also point out that if ICE agents stop someone based purely on their appearance it would be pretty hard to deport that person, even if they were in the country illegally. Unless you’re being arrested you do not have to present any proof of immigration status or even answer any questions.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 18th 2019 at 7:14:53 AM

They should have sent a poet.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#282923: Jun 18th 2019 at 7:08:48 PM

I’d be interested to see links and sources for those claims.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#282924: Jun 18th 2019 at 7:55:32 PM

[up] Which ones? Data about racial bias in policing is widely available online, I’d suggest the Stanford Open Policing Project. [1] You can see that overall stop rates are decreasing, and while the racial disparity in stops has only closed slightly it has been closing.

I’d attribute this to the rise of implicit bias training for police, which only really started in the last few years. This training has shown to be effective [2] and as it becomes more widespread and older officers retire the effects will continue to show.

As I mentioned up above though, Trump’s presidency has not had a positive effect. I’m hoping this doesn’t translate to a long-term change, but we’ll see.

I’ll also point out that racial bias in policing is a self-perpetuating thing. Minorities being prosecuted more leads to minorities commuting more crimes, which leads to police officers conducting heavier enforcement against minorities, which leads to them being prosecuted more and so on. Reversing the trend isn’t going to be quick and easy.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 18th 2019 at 7:58:36 AM

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#282925: Jun 18th 2019 at 8:29:22 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/06/18/day-880/

    Day 880: Let's see 
1/ Trump threatened to arrest and deport "millions of illegal aliens" next week. The action is not for people who have been in the country long term, but focused on recent arrivals who skipped court dates. There are an estimated 12 million immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. Of those, a senior administration official estimated that over "1 million" undocumented immigrants "have been issued final deportation orders by federal judges yet remain at large in the country." A senior administration official said the department is still in the planning phase. (Washington Post / Politico / ABC News / CNN / NPR / Reuters)

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/18/733661860/trump-threatens-to-deport-millions-as-he-kicks-off-campaign-for-reelection

📌 Day 868: Mexico proposed sending about 6,000 National Guard troops to the country's border with Guatemala to help stem migration as part of a deal to avoid Trump's tariffs. Mexico and Guatemala also agreed to consider significant changes in asylum laws in the region, allowing the U.S. to reject requests for protection from many people fleeing persecution. The arrangement being discussed would require migrants to seek asylum in the first safe country they enter. Trump threatened to charge a 5% tariff on all Mexican goods starting Monday unless the country reduces the flow of migrants streaming to the U.S. border. The U.S., however, is considering delaying the tariffs as talks continue and Mexican negotiators have made clear that they will pull their offers if Trump imposes the tariffs. (Washington Post / New York Times / Bloomberg / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/trump-mexico-tariff-fight-1353638

📌 Day 872: Trump backed off his threat to impose tariffs on all Mexican goods, tweeting that the U.S. reached an agreement with Mexico to reduce the number of migrants at the southern border. According to a joint statement, Mexico agreed to "take unprecedented steps to increase enforcement to curb irregular migration," including the deployment of thousands of national guard troops to its border with Guatemala to stop migrants from reaching the U.S. Mexico also agreed to an expansion of a Trump administration program to host more migrants seeking asylum while their court proceedings are in progress in the U.S. (New York Times / Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/mexican-officials-hail-tariff-averting-pact-with-us-even-as-worries-emerge/2019/06/08/fcee754a-8886-11e9-9d73-e2ba6bbf1b9b_story.html

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez accused Trump administration of running "concentration camps" at the U.S.-Mexico border. Republicans, meanwhile, accused Ocasio-Cortez of demeaning Jews exterminated in the Holocaust. Experts on concentration camps, however, say that "things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz." (Washington Post / Esquire / The Hill)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/449030-ocasio-cortez-compares-southern-border-detention-centers-to

2/ Trump's nominee for defense secretary "decided not to go forward with his confirmation process so that he can devote more time to his family." An FBI background check revealed that Patrick Shanahan's ex-wife had accused him of punching her in the stomach after she was arrested and charged for punching him in the face, and in a separate incident, his son hit his mother with a baseball bat. Shanahan's nomination process had been delayed by an unusually lengthy FBI background check. Trump named Mark Esper, the secretary of the Army, to take over as acting secretary of defense. (New York Times / Washington Post / CNBC / USA Today / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-shanahan-idUSKCN1TJ2DK

3/ Trump's nominee to be ambassador to the United Nations was frequently missing from her post while the U.S. Ambassador to Canada. FAA records show that a private jet registered to Kelly Craft's husband and used by the ambassador made 128 flights between the U.S. and Canada during a 15-month span of her tenure in Ottawa – the equivalent of a round trip once a week. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/17/kelly-craft-trump-ambassador-canada-1366735

4/ Attorney General William Barr's top deputy intervened in Paul Manafort's prison designation. The former Trump campaign manager was expected to be transferred to Rikers Island this month to await trial on a separate state case. Instead, Jeffrey Rosen informed prosecutors that Manafort will await trial at a federal lockup in Manhattan or at the Pennsylvania federal prison where he is serving a seven-and-a-half-year sentence. (New York Times / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/paul-manafort-expressed-concern-about-going-new-york-prison-then-n1018731

5/ The White House explored demoting Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell in February, shortly after Trump talked about firing him. When asked if Trump still wants to demote Powell, he told reporters: "Let's see what he does." The comment comes a day before the Fed was set to announce its next decision on interest rates. (Bloomberg / CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/18/trump-on-demoting-fed-chair-jerome-powell-lets-see-what-he-does.html

6/ Trump accused Fox News anchor Bret Baier of pushing "fake news." Baier cited Fox's own polling results that showed Joe Biden leading the 2020 presidential field in several battleground states. (Daily Beast)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/president-trump-calls-fox-news-fake-news-for-citing-unfavorable-poll-numbers

7/ The EPA will allow states to use a pesticide that is harmful to bees. The use of Sulfoxaflor was temporarily banned in 2015. (The Hill)

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/448970-epa-will-allow-use-of-pesticide-harmful-to-bees


Total posts: 417,856
Top