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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#282326: Jun 7th 2019 at 8:54:37 AM

Jefferson County, Colorado Independent School District sent out a letter to the community to say it is thinking about tearing down Columbine High School, the site of a school shooting back in 1999, because the school has become a point of origin for other school shootings and a gravitational pull towards those who want to commit school shootings.
Wasn't there recently a girl who was planning to go to Columbine specifically to repeat performance of Columbine, thwarted by posting her plans on social media?

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 7th 2019 at 9:55:32 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#282327: Jun 7th 2019 at 8:56:20 AM

It's specifically mentioned in the linked letter.

The tragedy at Columbine High School in 1999 serves as a point of origin for this contagion of school shootings. School shooters refer to and study the Columbine shooting as a macabre source of inspiration and motivation. Called “Columbiners,” there are people across the globe obsessed with the Columbine shooting. Sol Pais, the Florida teen who made her way to Colorado to take her own life, instigating concerns for a potential threat and causing schools across the entire Denver metro-area to close, was but one example.

Columbine High School has a gravitational-pull for these sorts of individuals. Annually, local law enforcement and Jeffco’s Department of School Safety make contacts with hundreds of individuals seeking to enter the school and reconnect with the 1999 murders. Most of them are there to satisfy curiosity or a macabre, but harmless, interest in the school. For a small group of others, there is a potential intent to do harm.

Edited by tclittle on Jun 7th 2019 at 10:57:17 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282328: Jun 7th 2019 at 8:59:33 AM

I was in Washington D.C. on a field trip for overachieving students when Columbine happened. I couldn't quite process it or what it did to the entirety of how students live their lives at the time. It took months for me to realize how things would never be the same at schools across America. I had a similar reaction to 9/11 as I didn't realize, "This thing happening here would effect everyone."

I think someone has stated that spree killers as we know them are actually replacing serial killers as the people who would become the latter are now choosing to do the former.

Frankly, I think tearing the place down isn't a terrible idea.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 7th 2019 at 9:02:24 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#282329: Jun 7th 2019 at 9:14:34 AM

I'm glad Pelosi has done this. If she doesn't want to be in the fight against Trump's people on the imprisoning side, she should give it to someone who is. I don't have any problem with her personally but Trump's people are savage fascists and need to be torn into by hook or by crook.

Excuse me?

She's the majority leader, the House moving to take serious action against members of the Trump administration is only happening because she gave it the ok. Furthermore, she recently said that Trump should be in prison.

It's just false to suggest that she "doesn't want to be in the fight against Trump's people on the imprisoning side". Just because she didn't do it at your pace doesn't mean that she's unwilling to do it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 7th 2019 at 9:20:11 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
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#282330: Jun 7th 2019 at 9:15:08 AM

Shutting it down as a school seems like a sound plan. I can't believe it still has attendance with its bad legacy.

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#282331: Jun 7th 2019 at 9:18:38 AM

I think it's a good idea, honestly. Even having it be a memorial is dangerous, as it could be used to glorify the event. Indeed, the memorial would be worse than just keeping it open as a school-I think that many of the people interested in such a place would be for exactly the wrong reasons.

I view the epidemic of shootings to be, in part, caused by a memetic virus of sorts. We need to stop the spread of this virus, and I think destroying that place will help with that. We need to kill the idea, and kill the memory.

Leviticus 19:34
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#282332: Jun 7th 2019 at 9:27:51 AM

That's why any memorial should have the names of victims and not the killers,tearing down the school and building something else in the hopes of erasing the memories to me is disrespectful

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ciyinwanderer Since: Dec, 2018
#282333: Jun 7th 2019 at 9:54:34 AM

Charles Phipps, holy shit I was in DC for my 8th grade trip that weekend, too. It was bizarre. It's like the whole world changed while we were away for a few days.

(Also it was a bad week for a trip, because there was some big international event going on so security was super tight and there was even a giant screen blocking visibility of the White House)

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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#282334: Jun 7th 2019 at 10:02:58 AM

Besides, the building itself is getting awfully old. At some point, replacing schools (or any other building) is a practical move.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282335: Jun 7th 2019 at 10:04:48 AM

Excuse me?

She's the majority leader, the House moving to take serious action against members of the Trump administration is only happening because she gave it the ok. Furthermore, she recently said that Trump should be in prison.

It's just false to suggest that she "doesn't want to be in the fight against Trump's people on the imprisoning side". Just because she didn't do it at your pace doesn't mean that she's unwilling to do it.

Except for all the times she's tried to move the agenda from criminal proceedings to legislation.

She's made her opinion clear and attempts to say she's felt differently than her statements are disingenuous.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282336: Jun 7th 2019 at 10:05:34 AM

Charles Phipps, holy shit I was in DC for my 8th grade trip that weekend, too. It was bizarre. It's like the whole world changed while we were away for a few days.

(Also it was a bad week for a trip, because there was some big international event going on so security was super tight and there was even a giant screen blocking visibility of the White House)

The day before we'd talked about bullying at a big town hall and how violence was never justified to resist it. Now bullies were murdering people and there's nothing that could be done to stop it if it happened.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 7th 2019 at 10:05:56 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#282337: Jun 7th 2019 at 11:01:48 AM

I say leave it standing as memorial to those who lost their lives,from what I can gather the school shooters wanted to blow up the school with bombs,so I think its unwise course of action

There are basically two conflicting sides on this debate here in Colorado.

On the one hand, people are arguing that Columbine should remain standing as a memorial to the shooting that kicked off the whole school shooting craze.

On the other hand, people are arguing that their children should not have to go to school in a tragic mass-murder memorial. Parents don't want their kids being educated in the National Capitol of School Shootings.

Excuse me?

She's the majority leader, the House moving to take serious action against members of the Trump administration is only happening because she gave it the ok. Furthermore, she recently said that Trump should be in prison.

It's just false to suggest that she "doesn't want to be in the fight against Trump's people on the imprisoning side". Just because she didn't do it at your pace doesn't mean that she's unwilling to do it.

She didn't give it the okay. She gave Nadler the okay to do it himself. The motion going to a floor vote will empower Nadler's committee to go after contempt charges himself, without having to run them through Pelosi and the full House first.

She's holding a vote to excuse herself and the full House from the battle between Jerry Nadler's Judiciary Committee and the Trump Executive, while still allowing that battle to happen without her. It is a compromise, but it's the best possible compromise, really.

Note that Nadler's also been pushing for an impeachment inquiry, which is another point he and Pelosi strongly disagree on.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 7th 2019 at 12:05:02 PM

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Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#282338: Jun 7th 2019 at 11:15:04 AM

"She didn't give it the okay. She gave Nadler the okay to do it himself. The motion going to a floor vote will empower Nadler's committee to go after contempt charges himself, without having to run them through Pelosi and the full House first."

This is incorrect. The motion says all subpoenas from the committee chairmans - not just Nadler, we're also talking about Schiff and Cummings here - go to Pelosi to be approved. Once she stamps them they go into affect right away.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#282339: Jun 7th 2019 at 11:24:41 AM

> On the other hand, people are arguing that their children should not have to go to school in a tragic mass-murder memorial.

Right,I support that notion,which is why they should build a new school in a new location

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#282340: Jun 7th 2019 at 11:56:33 AM

This is incorrect. The motion says all subpoenas from the committee chairmans - not just Nadler, we're also talking about Schiff and Cummings here - go to Pelosi to be approved. Once she stamps them they go into affect right away.

Wait, what?

(google google)

Oh, sure enough. Politico mentions that in their reporting on the matter.

Under the proposal, committee chairs seeking to enforce its subpoenas in federal court would still be required to obtain the approval of a bipartisan — but Democrat-controlled — panel of House leaders that includes Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, Minority Leader Kevin Mc Carthy and Minority Whip Steve Scalise.

Nadler's been pushing hard for this measure for about two weeks now, after it was announced that there would be no contempt hearings in May. It's pretty much his baby. He wants committee chairs to have authority to pursue their own subpoenas, and he also wants to open an impeachment inquiry in order to centralize all the myriad investigations into Trump.

Nadler is adamant about fighting Trump with every tool at his disposal. Although his latter idea remains unpopular among House Democrats.

In a closed-door emergency caucus meeting this week, Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.), a Pelosi ally, made a point many saw as pushing back at the pressure from Nadler and others on Judiciary, who are increasingly frustrated by the administration’s stonewalling.

Welch stood up and said that while Democrats may eventually have to move forward with impeachment, they should not do so just because of pique within the Judiciary Committee.

It seems it’s “just the Judiciary Committee that’s getting dissed” by the Trump administration, Welch said, according to a source in the room. Democrats, he added, cannot let that dictate the actions of the entire Congress.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 7th 2019 at 1:01:19 PM

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Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#282341: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:07:59 PM

She didn't give it the okay. She gave Nadler the okay to do it himself.

That sounds like a distinction without a difference.

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A procrastination in of itself
#282342: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:13:00 PM

Also I’m not convinced this isn’t a play, that distinction is meaningless, unless it looks like there’s going to be a popular backlash against the investigations, in which case it can be dumped on Nadler instead of all democrats.

Nadler isn’t going rogue, he’s spearheading the calls for impeachment because someone has to, but it can’t be Pelosi. I bet Nadler does feel more strongly on this, but I’m also open to the possibility that this is a calculated play, Nadler can test the water and Pelosi can bring the rest of the democrats after if he finds a path to impeachment.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#282343: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:20:42 PM

It is the distinction between charging a machine gun and sending someone else.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#282344: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:28:18 PM

Why is everyone giving Pelosi flak for doing her job and delegating?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#282345: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:29:30 PM

Presumably because she didn't do this sooner.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#282346: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:35:41 PM

It's been a month since the vote to hold William Barr in contempt. Pelosi, at the time, explained the House's unwillingness to hold a full vote by saying they wanted to wait until they had more Trump cronies in contempt and then do 'em all at once - an explanation that sounded pretty weaksauce even at the time.

It's telling that they're finally holding the vote now with only one other name added to the list, at the same time that they're holding a vote to not hold any more floor votes on contempt charges ever again.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 7th 2019 at 1:36:26 PM

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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#282347: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:36:10 PM

[up][up]And/or do it herself.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 7th 2019 at 1:36:32 PM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#282348: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:42:10 PM

She's majority leader, she doesn't need to do everything personally. And giving leg up to other members of the party is a good call, as she's committed to retiring in 2022.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#282349: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:47:00 PM

For clarification's sake, are you defending Pelosi's decision to pass the buck to Nadler or are you defending the last month of stubborn refusal to hold a contempt vote?

Because nobody's upset about Pelosi empowering Nadler to do the work Pelosi herself doesn't want. The criticism of Pelosi is centered around the fact that she left Barr's contempt charge to rot on her desk for a month and now seems to only be taking action so that she can wash her hands of it, as well as the fact that she refuses to even consider impeachment as a viable course of action.

Pelosi's strategy appears to be to stay the course, act like everything is fine, wait for Trump's term in office to expire naturally, and then hopefully win the 2020 election so that he can leave office as an ordinary Republican President. Everything is fine. This is all normal. Nothing to see here.

This strategy is what's earned her the ire of some Democrats who saw the 2018 Blue Wave as an opportunity to push back against Trump's Executive and finally bring about some consequences for the numerous crimes he's committed. Normalizing Trump is the opposite of what we wanted when we voted in droves to put power back in Democratic hands.

We wanted Pelosi to resist Trump. Instead, Nadler's the one resisting Trump, and it seems he's finally convinced Pelosi to just step aside and let him have the tools he needs to do it. Which, y'know, good on Nadler and it's nice that Pelosi was willing to do it, but it's still a mark against her that our House Majority Leader isn't willing to actually carry the fight that Democrats turned out to see fought.

Like I said before, Pelosi's been a fantastic peacetime leader. But this is not peacetime and we need our leaders to be taking Trump seriously.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 7th 2019 at 1:50:25 PM

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RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#282350: Jun 7th 2019 at 12:49:49 PM

So... I saw Trump has claimed that the moon is part of Mars.


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