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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#281851: May 30th 2019 at 9:17:24 AM

Which is blatant lies. Abortions in the third trimester are rare and only occur when the mother’s life is in extreme danger and early delivery isn’t possible and/or if something is VERY wrong with the fetus. Here’s a very sad article about one such abortion.

Here’s the intro to the piece.

Elizabeth is 35. She grew up in the South, currently lives in Brooklyn, and has been married for two years. After a previous miscarriage at 10 weeks, she was overjoyed to find herself pregnant for a second time. At 31 weeks, she found out that the baby boy she was carrying wouldn’t be able to breathe outside the womb and would not survive. And at 32 weeks, she flew to Colorado to get a shot that would start the process of a third-trimester abortion; she then flew back to New York to finish the delivery. We talked on the phone two weeks into her recovery.

Edited by wisewillow on May 30th 2019 at 9:18:22 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#281852: May 30th 2019 at 9:28:18 AM

Yeah, not all problems present themselves nice and early. So, you are left with the horrible decision after probably having got your hopes up with a couple of good scans. sad

And, any idiot who suggests all unviable babies should be carried to as close to term as possible, born and then watched die in increments while hooked up to the nines in an incubator is a callous bastard.

Edited by Euodiachloris on May 30th 2019 at 5:29:53 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281853: May 30th 2019 at 9:44:51 AM

My general opinion is the Republican party made Abortion a central issue to distract the public from issues of economic inequity, war, and corruption the same way they used racism.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#281854: May 30th 2019 at 9:50:26 AM

See, if memory serves the actual reason why US evangelicals emphasized abortion so much was in order to draw Catholic voters away from Democrats in the 1960s.

In addition, abortion is just the kind of thing that tends to attract diverse opinions. Womens' rights vs. rights of the unborn, preservation of all life vs. trading it off (e.g "in medical emergency" abortions) and the like.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#281855: May 30th 2019 at 9:50:44 AM

[up][up]And general health care.

Edited by BearyScary on May 30th 2019 at 8:51:19 AM

Do not obey in advance.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281856: May 30th 2019 at 9:57:13 AM

More specifically, Republican propagandists decided in the mid-20th century that they needed wedge issues to drive religious voters away from the Democratic Party, which had up until this point been successfully portraying their efforts to improve the social safety net and reduce inequality as "giving unto the poor" and similar charitable concepts.

There was a deliberate and well-funded effort by evangelical megachurches to spread the Calvinist-inspired doctrine that the rich deserve the fruit of their efforts, and separately that abortion is evil and liberals are godless heathens trying to take away the freedom of religion.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281857: May 30th 2019 at 10:02:57 AM

Its a plague on Christianity but that's just my opinion as a liberal believer.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281858: May 30th 2019 at 10:04:30 AM

The Catholic position, at least in ideals, is one I can support, and really wish the GOP would take note of that overall position - because the best way to clamp down on abortion would be to improve access to neo-natal and natal care, hospitals for actual delivery (because gee willikers, it kinda costs money to deliver a baby!), daycare and/or preschool programs, and other such benefits for those that maybe can't support an infant independently and don't have a close-knit group around to help them.

But that would just help the "Welfare Queens", so we can't have any of that!

And in non-abortion news, turns out that the Citizenship question on the Census is pretty overtly intended to depress Latino turnout, and - in the words of late-GOP redistricting specialist Thomas Hofeller - it would also be “advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites.”

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#281859: May 30th 2019 at 10:11:29 AM

Uh, you mean it’s exactly the blatant voter suppression/gerrymandering scheme everyone thought it was all along? Like, that’s the entire point. The new papers are just a massive smoking gun after we already saw a dead body with a bullet wound.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#281860: May 30th 2019 at 10:12:47 AM

Some people will still insist they got killed by a bullet sized meteor.

"You can reply to this Message!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281861: May 30th 2019 at 10:14:41 AM

[up][up]

That smoking gun is indeed the helpful bit, as it directly contradicts the Trump administration's claims that it was meant to help Latino communities.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#281862: May 30th 2019 at 10:18:30 AM

Too bad the people who could say “You can’t do that” don’t seem to have the strength of numbers at the present needed to say so.

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#281863: May 30th 2019 at 10:18:44 AM

Actually, if memory serves, the point of the census question is not simply a gerrymander.

It's also a way to rig the electoral college redistricting in 2020 by reducing the amount of people in states with large immigrant populations in favour of the states with few immigrants.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#281864: May 30th 2019 at 10:25:33 AM

@Fighteer: Also, there was an even more successful move to associate any kind of welfare programs with "socialism," which was used as a dogwhistle for "godless Communism," a Hitler Ate Sugar fallacy if there ever was one.

And, understandably but unfortunately, leftist people of faith are too committed to secularism in politics to raise religious support for social welfare programs and to fight the Dominionists on their own ground.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#281865: May 30th 2019 at 10:30:02 AM

Yeah, it is pretty despicable that they always focus on the later term abortions which, yes, are horrible but ALWAYS done for medical reasons only. Not just because they are illegal otherwise in pretty much every country, but also because a woman who had a baby in her womb for this one won't suddenly decide to get rid of it out of some whim. They either want to terminate the pregnancy as early as possible (and would if the system would let them instead of forcing them to jump through all kind of hoops) or not at all.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#281867: May 30th 2019 at 11:19:32 AM

[up][up]The right wing seems really invested in the idea that people somehow decide to become pregnant (because apparently having sex should automatically be equivalent to 'I want to have a baby' if you have the prerequisite chromosomes) and have abortions just for the fun of it all. It's not like later stage abortion can be a risky and expensive medical procedure or anything...

Edited by Pseudopartition on May 30th 2019 at 1:19:48 PM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#281868: May 30th 2019 at 11:29:44 AM

[up]There’s also the matter of them not wanting sex to be consequence-free. See: their attacks on birth control, valid sex education, etc. The only thing not clear to me is if it’s control for its own sake, or if they have a more specific end goal, and are merely using this as a stepping stone.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 30th 2019 at 2:30:00 PM

My musician page
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281869: May 30th 2019 at 11:32:40 AM

More specifically, female sex should not be consequence-free, in their opinion. Men can sow their wild oats, but a woman should be pristine and virginal for marriage and cleave to her one (and only) husband. This is a very ancient cultural belief that most religions back implicitly. The idea that a woman can choose when to and when not to have sex, while being free from the risk of unwanted childbearing, is horrifying to them.

Edited by Fighteer on May 30th 2019 at 2:33:18 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#281870: May 30th 2019 at 11:38:38 AM

Sun-Maid raisin company has pulled the sponsorship of the minor league baseball Fresno Grizzlies after they posted a Memorial Day "enemies of freedom" video comparing Alexandria Occasio-Cortez to Kim Jong-Il and Fidel Castro.-

Edited by tclittle on May 30th 2019 at 1:39:34 PM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281871: May 30th 2019 at 11:50:19 AM

[up]

According to the President of the team, it was because they downloaded a patriotic video for public viewing (though whether or not they paid to do so is unstated, which is another can of worms entirely), and none of them actually watched it the whole way through before having it up on-screen.

Which, honestly, is almost an even worse look, as it shows they cared that little about Memorial Day. But given that the team is based in San Francisco, I'm genuinely inclined to believe that account, as their typical audience would generally be a bit more liberal than most.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281873: May 30th 2019 at 12:14:17 PM

This article about illegal abortions from 1976 from the CDC is eye opening.

[down] Sorry, here's the TDRL version:

In a 1976 article, researchers from the Center for Disease Control examined national abortion data from the three years surrounding the rulings and estimated that the number of illegal procedures in the country plummeted from around 130,000 to 17,000 between 1972 and 1974. The number of deaths associated with illegal abortion decreased from 39 to five in that same time period; women who died as a result of illegal abortions typically were black, were more than 12 weeks pregnant and had self-induced in their own community.

Edited by megaeliz on May 30th 2019 at 3:17:15 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281874: May 30th 2019 at 12:15:03 PM

[up] Care to summarize? Link dumping is bad etiquette, something you should know by now.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#281875: May 30th 2019 at 12:16:48 PM

@Fighteer: Not so much. Most religions that have made it to the modern era demand abstinence until marriage and exclusivity within it, even polygynous religions. It's just that women are much easier targets for harassment because they have to deal with pregnancy. (Child support is supported by a broad consensus - more's the pity - and doesn't carry any real stigma.)

That's not to say that there aren't men arguing that men should be free to philander all they want while women should be abstinent and then faithful (and should be punished for any indiscretions), but Roy Moore is considered a lunatic even among Republicans. The majority of the anti-adultery crowd are opposed to everyone's adultery.


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