Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yeah, not all problems present themselves nice and early. So, you are left with the horrible decision after probably having got your hopes up with a couple of good scans.
And, any idiot who suggests all unviable babies should be carried to as close to term as possible, born and then watched die in increments while hooked up to the nines in an incubator is a callous bastard.
Edited by Euodiachloris on May 30th 2019 at 5:29:53 PM
See, if memory serves the actual reason why US evangelicals emphasized abortion so much was in order to draw Catholic voters away from Democrats in the 1960s.
In addition, abortion is just the kind of thing that tends to attract diverse opinions. Womens' rights vs. rights of the unborn, preservation of all life vs. trading it off (e.g "in medical emergency" abortions) and the like.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanMore specifically, Republican propagandists decided in the mid-20th century that they needed wedge issues to drive religious voters away from the Democratic Party, which had up until this point been successfully portraying their efforts to improve the social safety net and reduce inequality as "giving unto the poor" and similar charitable concepts.
There was a deliberate and well-funded effort by evangelical megachurches to spread the Calvinist-inspired doctrine that the rich deserve the fruit of their efforts, and separately that abortion is evil and liberals are godless heathens trying to take away the freedom of religion.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The Catholic position, at least in ideals, is one I can support, and really wish the GOP would take note of that overall position - because the best way to clamp down on abortion would be to improve access to neo-natal and natal care, hospitals for actual delivery (because gee willikers, it kinda costs money to deliver a baby!), daycare and/or preschool programs, and other such benefits for those that maybe can't support an infant independently and don't have a close-knit group around to help them.
But that would just help the "Welfare Queens", so we can't have any of that!
And in non-abortion news, turns out that the Citizenship question on the Census is pretty overtly intended to depress Latino turnout
, and - in the words of late-GOP redistricting specialist Thomas Hofeller - it would also be “advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites.”
Too bad the people who could say “You can’t do that” don’t seem to have the strength of numbers at the present needed to say so.
My musician pageActually, if memory serves, the point of the census question is not simply a gerrymander.
It's also a way to rig the electoral college redistricting in 2020 by reducing the amount of people in states with large immigrant populations in favour of the states with few immigrants.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman@Fighteer: Also, there was an even more successful move to associate any kind of welfare programs with "socialism," which was used as a dogwhistle for "godless Communism," a Hitler Ate Sugar fallacy if there ever was one.
And, understandably but unfortunately, leftist people of faith are too committed to secularism in politics to raise religious support for social welfare programs and to fight the Dominionists on their own ground.
Yeah, it is pretty despicable that they always focus on the later term abortions which, yes, are horrible but ALWAYS done for medical reasons only. Not just because they are illegal otherwise in pretty much every country, but also because a woman who had a baby in her womb for this one won't suddenly decide to get rid of it out of some whim. They either want to terminate the pregnancy as early as possible (and would if the system would let them instead of forcing them to jump through all kind of hoops) or not at all.
![]()
The right wing seems really invested in the idea that people somehow decide to become pregnant (because apparently having sex should automatically be equivalent to 'I want to have a baby' if you have the prerequisite chromosomes) and have abortions just for the fun of it all. It's not like later stage abortion can be a risky and expensive medical procedure or anything...
Edited by Pseudopartition on May 30th 2019 at 1:19:48 PM
There’s also the matter of them not wanting sex to be consequence-free. See: their attacks on birth control, valid sex education, etc. The only thing not clear to me is if it’s control for its own sake, or if they have a more specific end goal, and are merely using this as a stepping stone.
Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 30th 2019 at 2:30:00 PM
My musician pageMore specifically, female sex should not be consequence-free, in their opinion. Men can sow their wild oats, but a woman should be pristine and virginal for marriage and cleave to her one (and only) husband. This is a very ancient cultural belief that most religions back implicitly. The idea that a woman can choose when to and when not to have sex, while being free from the risk of unwanted childbearing, is horrifying to them.
Edited by Fighteer on May 30th 2019 at 2:33:18 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Edited by tclittle on May 30th 2019 at 1:39:34 PM
"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
According to the President of the team, it was because they downloaded a patriotic video for public viewing (though whether or not they paid to do so is unstated, which is another can of worms entirely), and none of them actually watched it the whole way through before having it up on-screen.
Which, honestly, is almost an even worse look, as it shows they cared that little about Memorial Day. But given that the team is based in San Francisco, I'm genuinely inclined to believe that account, as their typical audience would generally be a bit more liberal than most.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Department of Energy Rebrands Fossil Fuels as "Molecules of Freedom"
At this point I think satirists are just out of a job
This article about illegal abortions from 1976 from the CDC is eye opening.
Sorry, here's the TDRL version:
Edited by megaeliz on May 30th 2019 at 3:17:15 PM
Care to summarize? Link dumping is bad etiquette, something you should know by now.
@Fighteer: Not so much. Most religions that have made it to the modern era demand abstinence until marriage and exclusivity within it, even polygynous religions. It's just that women are much easier targets for harassment because they have to deal with pregnancy. (Child support is supported by a broad consensus - more's the pity - and doesn't carry any real stigma.)
That's not to say that there aren't men arguing that men should be free to philander all they want while women should be abstinent and then faithful (and should be punished for any indiscretions), but Roy Moore is considered a lunatic even among Republicans. The majority of the anti-adultery crowd are opposed to everyone's adultery.

Which is blatant lies. Abortions in the third trimester are rare and only occur when the mother’s life is in extreme danger and early delivery isn’t possible and/or if something is VERY wrong with the fetus. Here’s a very sad article
about one such abortion.
Here’s the intro to the piece.
Edited by wisewillow on May 30th 2019 at 9:18:22 AM