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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281801: May 29th 2019 at 9:51:52 PM

It's that "heartbeat" ban thing. Which effectively makes it so that women can only have an abortion six weeks or less into the pregnancy. Which is a problem considering women often don't even know they are pregnant at that time.

It's not like women can instantly sense when some guy's swimmers made a landing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#281802: May 29th 2019 at 9:54:58 PM

@Protagonist: Wait, you're mad that Disney is threatening to pull out of the state if the heartbeat abortion ban goes into effect?

Edited by RedSavant on May 29th 2019 at 12:55:08 PM

It's been fun.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#281803: May 29th 2019 at 9:55:41 PM

Or to at least stop using Atlanta for California Doubling as many companies do nowadays.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#281804: May 29th 2019 at 9:58:31 PM

[up][up]I imagine that Protagonist is a Pro-Lifer. It fits with other things about them, and he might have actually said so before.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281805: May 29th 2019 at 10:02:38 PM

I'd say it'd make more sense to test based on brain activity (and specific brain activity) but the issue isn't about facts but emotion.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#281807: May 29th 2019 at 10:19:30 PM

US energy department rebrands fossil fuels as 'molecules of freedom' – Press release from department said increasing export capacity is ‘critical to spreading freedom gas throughout the world

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/29/energy-department-molecules-freedom-fossil-fuel-rebranding

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281808: May 29th 2019 at 10:21:05 PM

[up] I give up. We are living in an absurdist satire.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281809: May 29th 2019 at 10:29:36 PM

Not sure if this is worse than freedom fries. On one hand, it's far broader in scope. OTOH, freedom fries was a deliberate dig at the French.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#281810: May 29th 2019 at 10:31:47 PM

@LSBK: More to the point, they're an ex-Republican, and it's fucking embarrassing (as another one) to see the GOP's "principled objections" die because movie money got involved. If you believe that a fetus is a person and that abortion is murder (and reasonable people can disagree on this), then you should damn well stand by your principles instead of deciding that it's more important to have the latest Netflix original series filmed in your state. It's just more proof that the GOP's "pro-life" stance is built on misogyny and vote-grabbing, and not actual principled beliefs.

(Nothing against Disney and Netflix' actions here - the sin is all on the Georgia GOP if they cave.)

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#281811: May 29th 2019 at 10:34:10 PM

Wait, isn't this topic banned on the forum?

Do not obey in advance.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#281812: May 29th 2019 at 10:36:30 PM

We should probably get this clarified in the relevant post.

There won't be an abortion topic. If the topic comes up in the course of US politics, the mods generally allow discussion so long as it stays civil.

Edited by Ramidel on May 29th 2019 at 9:36:42 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#281813: May 29th 2019 at 10:36:45 PM

@Red Savant @LSBK I dislike the 'pro-life' label (too easy for someone to say "if you call yourself 'pro-life' why do you support x policy that involves death?"), but I'm definitely very strongly anti-abortion, even by the standards of most Republicans. In fact, I'm rather critical of the Republican party for being too moderate on the issue.

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281814: May 29th 2019 at 10:42:40 PM

The GOP pretty much has no principled beliefs at this point. For one thing, their willingness to pander to dying industries like coal for votes runs contrary to free market principles.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281815: May 29th 2019 at 10:48:49 PM

All I'm going to say, is that this bill will certainly not help Georgia's Dismal Maternal morality rate, particularly among Woman of Color.

  • 12.7 deaths per 100,000 live births for white women.
  • 43.5 deaths per 100,000 live births for black women.
  • 14.4 deaths per 100,000 live births for women of other races.

People who believe it's wrong, and support evidence based practices that are actually shown to reduce it, such as comprehensive sex education, and free access to different forms of birth control, I can respect. What I can't respect, is the hypocrisy of people who say they are against it, while defunding social services, and refusing to take steps that actually work to help prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Edited by megaeliz on May 29th 2019 at 2:01:08 PM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#281816: May 29th 2019 at 11:10:32 PM

My beef with the Republican Party at the moment is less their official goals (I have disagreements with their stance on LGBT issues and immigration) and more that they've gone into full Tautological Templar mode. It's the apotheosis of redoubling your efforts while forgetting your aim.

Basically, the Republicans have kind of lost their identity aside from being the anti-Democrats (and have demonized Democrats to a laughable degree). They're no longer even thinking about their actual agenda, just seeing what the Democrats want and doing the opposite. They can justify any policy on the basis that it's not what the Democrats want. Case and point: Donald Trump was often defended by saying "at least they're not Hillary".

This is why, by the way, compromising with the GOP won't really work for the DNC. The GOP is currently defined by contrarianism. They don't really want anything specific, other than to say "no" to the Democrats.

Leviticus 19:34
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281818: May 29th 2019 at 11:39:35 PM

The GOP pretty much has no principled beliefs at this point. For one thing, their willingness to pander to dying industries like coal for votes runs contrary to free market principles.

Free market is, of course, an awful idea.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281819: May 30th 2019 at 12:00:29 AM

[up]No, it's just not a panacea for all issues.

It's also much like free speech in that there have to be some safeguards and limitations to keep the powerful from trampling the weak.

Edited by M84 on May 31st 2019 at 3:01:12 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281820: May 30th 2019 at 12:01:05 AM

[up][up] Being that nature abhors a vacuum, and all of that, someone is inevitably going to rise to the top, in effect making it no longer "Free".

That's kinda why Laise-Fare capitalism being the epitome of the "free market" never really made sense to me.

Edited by megaeliz on May 30th 2019 at 3:08:09 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281821: May 30th 2019 at 12:01:49 AM

And yes, a regulated free market is still a free market.

A free society doesn't stop being free just because laws exist.

[up]No, that principle when applied to the market simply means that if someone finds a need or a desire not currently being fulfilled, they will take the opportunity to be first to fill it.

Suffice to say, it's actually a lot more complex than both its detractors and its most ardent ideologues think of it. The hardcore Communists and the idiotic lolbertarians are both off the mark.

Edited by M84 on May 31st 2019 at 3:05:25 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281822: May 30th 2019 at 12:05:29 AM

Laissez-faire means don't prop up or bail out businesses that are doing a subpar job serving the public (glances at banks). It means get rid of corporate welfare and don't decide your policy on pork.

Edited by Oruka on May 30th 2019 at 12:06:27 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281823: May 30th 2019 at 12:07:41 AM

The markets should be heavily regulated and manipulated by the government.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281824: May 30th 2019 at 12:08:13 AM

[up]Let's not be advocating state-run economies here. Command economies don't tend to work out very well.

Besides, I certainly don't think that things would improve if people like Trump or Mc Connell had even more influence over the market.

Edited by M84 on May 31st 2019 at 3:15:48 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281825: May 30th 2019 at 12:17:20 AM

[up] Honestly, it's a lot more nuanced than a lot of people give it credit for.

The free market system works best for consumer goods and luxuries. It provides incentives to innovate and improve products and experiences for the consumer, and gives people choice.

Where the free market fails, is on necessities, such as healthcare or education. All those things that are strengths now become weakness.

(I'm too tired to be particularly articulate tonight)

Edited by megaeliz on May 30th 2019 at 3:22:02 PM


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