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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#281701: May 28th 2019 at 7:35:29 PM

A lot of spies are known, but they are/were diplomatic personnel with diplomatic immunity. Best you can do is learn their movements and try to fight them off as best you can, because deporting them means they get replaced with someone you have to learn about.


And in news that surprise utterly no one, Mitch blatantly said that he would fill a SC spot during an election year, because its okay when Republicans do it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/politics/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-2020/index.html

Edited by Rationalinsanity on May 28th 2019 at 11:37:40 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281702: May 28th 2019 at 8:43:48 PM

The problem is that it's enabling the lie that coal still has a future.

It doesn't.

And?

There's only 40,000 jobs related to coal in the state of West Virginia and that's one of the biggest. The job should be to replace all of those and add them. Until then, they should support the industry until they have an alternative.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281703: May 28th 2019 at 8:48:11 PM

The problem is they don't want an alternative. They want to keep their coal jobs. They still buy into the myth of "King Coal".

The only way they will accept the alternative is by convincing them that "King Coal" is dead.

Edited by M84 on May 28th 2019 at 11:48:46 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#281704: May 28th 2019 at 8:49:04 PM

Uh, Climate Change is an existential threat.

Supporting the Coal industry because voters are morons is an absolutely terrible idea.

I'm all for a Federal jobs guarantee but no thank you.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#281705: May 28th 2019 at 9:06:31 PM

Texas got real close (only needed the state House to vote on it) to charging you fines and possible jail time for protesting pipelines, even if it's your own land.

Luckily, the Legislative session ended on Monday, but Abbott may end up calling a special session. He hasn't been threatening it, but you never know.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281706: May 28th 2019 at 9:36:23 PM

Then the Federal government needs to replace all the coal plants in West Virginia—which exist because they provide coal jobs.

Its the Circle of Suck.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281707: May 28th 2019 at 9:44:26 PM

The problem is they don't want an alternative. They want to keep their coal jobs. They still buy into the myth of "King Coal".

The only way they will accept the alternative is by convincing them that "King Coal" is dead.

The alternative has not been particularly well articulated or shown to be effective as well as providing for their families. There will be resistance no matter what but an argument, "This is the jobs you will have instead" and showing them is a lot more effective than, "We'll totally replace these. Honest."

Those who ask a man to lose his livelihood without an alternative in hand are never going to get much support.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#281708: May 28th 2019 at 9:56:02 PM

I mean, in my view, the goal should be to recognize that the idea of finding a Job for every human is quickly becoming impractical, and therefore restructure society in a way that makes working optional.

But, that said, they have been doing what you suggested. I remember in one of the debates, when asked about exactly this issue, Hillary said something along the lines of 'well, we'll need to transition into renewable energy, and that means a lot of labour will need to be put into restricting our infrastructure in a way that allows that, and then we'll need people making sure all the new stuff works, so that will create a lot of jobs.'

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281709: May 28th 2019 at 10:00:58 PM

And they rejected that in favor of Trump who promised to keep King Coal alive.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#281710: May 28th 2019 at 10:02:30 PM

[up][up] She even says the same thing in the video Charles posted.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281711: May 28th 2019 at 10:55:00 PM

Yes, vague promises and maybes.

Hillary's economics plan was also based on expanding the benefit of the Middle Class. The people who didn't have jobs and were destitute would not have benefited from it save in the most indirect way. It's why no one trusted her on economic matters.

And yes, keeping King Coal alive for those tiny amount of jobs makes perfect sense until you have, "We're building X number of power plants" as a plan in writing.

I remember an argument where a Democrat friend of mine said that independent farming was completely impractical and had no reason to continue to exist.

My response was, "And why should any farmer ever vote for you?"

His answer? "Because mine is the future."

"A future where they're living on welfare and lose their home."

Its frustrating because the Republicans are the reason this exists but the Democrats do't have a policy against them.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 28th 2019 at 10:56:31 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281712: May 28th 2019 at 11:02:22 PM

The GOP's pandering to King Coal is proof that for all their talk they don't really give a shit about the free market.

The free market would let King Coal give up its crown.

John Oliver did a segment on coal, now that I think about it.

This was the one that nearly got him sued because he dared to call out the head of a coal company for being full of shit.

Edited by M84 on May 29th 2019 at 2:03:28 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#281713: May 28th 2019 at 11:03:34 PM

We can't keep shooting ourselves in the foot and propping up dead industries because people are too stubborn to give up sending their kids off to get black lung.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281714: May 28th 2019 at 11:06:00 PM

Yeah, there's the fact that being a coal miner has always been a pretty fucking dangerous job with detrimental effects on health.

Edited by M84 on May 29th 2019 at 2:06:12 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#281715: May 28th 2019 at 11:08:13 PM

Man, are you asking Hillary to lay out a detailed and specific plan for exactly how many Power Plants are going to be built and where, and in what timeframe, all within two minutes of speaking?

Like, even if that were possible, surely it's not the kind of thing it's practical to decide before you get into office. Planning the shit is gonna take time and resources.

And it's not like she was saying 'we're gonna shut down all coal mines immediately'. She was saying 'well, there's no future in coal, so here's the kind of job I'll give you to transition into'.

Edited by Gilphon on May 28th 2019 at 2:13:40 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#281716: May 28th 2019 at 11:10:50 PM

Charles the problem is that we can’t have a policy of that, because such close to the ground policy isn’t formed at a federal level, it’s formed at a state level.

Hillary pushed for rural rejuvenation as a candidate, but from a federal perspective that means giving grants to state governments to try and build up the kind of jobs you’re talking about, and guess what happens when such grants turn up? Republican state governments reject the grants.

We can’t give the rural poor in Kentucky jobs, the Kentucky government won’t let us.

In the end Hillary had a plan to help these people, she had as detailed a plan as one can have at a federal level, nobody (I suspect even you) heard about it due to a variety of reasons, but it was there.

Oh and as always I’d like to note that poor and working-class aren’t the same thing in the US, for some reason your press measure class based on education, so a college educated twenty something working at Burger King is considered middle class, while a high-school drop out in his forties who owned his own small business is considered working class.

The poor voted for Hillary, the uneducated voted for Trump, a lot of the people you see as the poor are business owners who realy aren’t, but they are uneducated.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281717: May 28th 2019 at 11:13:38 PM

I know the situation but I remind you that West Virginia is a BLUE state.

It is Joe Machin's state.

And it voted 4-1 on Trump's side.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281718: May 28th 2019 at 11:17:29 PM

WV isn't a Blue State just because it has a Democratic Senator.

By that logic Alabama is a Blue State.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#281719: May 28th 2019 at 11:18:37 PM

No it’s a state with one blue person, the state government consists of a Republican house, a Republican senate and a Republican governor.

We can’t fix West Virginia without the cooperation of the West Virginia government, they’re not interested.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#281720: May 28th 2019 at 11:19:50 PM

Much as we'd like to our options for dragging coal towns kicking and screaming into economic prosperity are rather limited.

They go out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot and harm their own interests.

Oh really when?
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#281721: May 28th 2019 at 11:20:33 PM

Man, West Virginia hasn't voted for a Democratic President in over twenty years, and wasn't exactly Pure Blue before that either.

And Machin is not exactly a typical Democrat either.

Edited by Gilphon on May 28th 2019 at 2:22:22 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#281722: May 28th 2019 at 11:22:40 PM

For the record Democrats did hold a trifecta in West Virginia until 2014, so if one wants to blame someone it’s not Hillary, it’s Obama, he could have sent help and gotten it used, well if he’d gotten that help past congress...

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281723: May 29th 2019 at 12:20:55 AM

Hillary pushed for rural rejuvenation as a candidate, but from a federal perspective that means giving grants to state governments to try and build up the kind of jobs you’re talking about, and guess what happens when such grants turn up? Republican state governments reject the grants.

We can’t give the rural poor in Kentucky jobs, the Kentucky government won’t let us.

They reject free money?! Can't Congress, SCOTUS, or executive orders make them?

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#281724: May 29th 2019 at 12:43:47 AM

If the money is earmarked for specific purposes, like (for example) establishing a windmill farm or something, they can't accept it without pissing off their base of voters who think that windmills cause gay cancer or whatever. It's not just a chunk of money with no riders attached, because that would vanish very fast.

It's been fun.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281725: May 29th 2019 at 1:02:19 AM

Good thing green energies are so cheap they're beating fossils even when the latter are subsidized and they are not.


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