TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#281626: May 28th 2019 at 11:34:00 AM

Is there any reason the vote wouldn’t pass after the recess ends? If not, then not only are the republicans being malicious, but they’re also being petty.

So they're being Republicans, then?

Edited by sgamer82 on May 28th 2019 at 12:34:30 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#281627: May 28th 2019 at 11:45:00 AM

I'd actually call Bernie "diet progressive". You can't claim to be more progressive than many of your contemporaries while dumping on "identity politics", treating Russia with kid gloves, and generally practicing "whites first" socialism.

i'm tired, my friend
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#281628: May 28th 2019 at 11:57:40 AM

[up][up]True, but in a less-harmful, more-pathetic flavor than usual compared to their complete obstructions.

My musician page
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#281629: May 28th 2019 at 12:03:36 PM

[up][up] Generally, pacifism has long been a staple of progressive movements. Jeremy Corbyn is so appeasing towards Russia, even when they murder British citizens, that I could never vote for his party, but he still is a progressive, absolutely no question about it.

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#281630: May 28th 2019 at 12:07:02 PM

I'd actually call Bernie "diet progressive". You can't claim to be more progressive than many of your contemporaries while dumping on "identity politics", treating Russia with kid gloves, and generally practicing "whites first" socialism.

I wouldn't say this makes him less of a progressive, those are good reasons to dislike him but he's still a progressive.

Just one that holds shitty positions.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#281631: May 28th 2019 at 12:07:54 PM

[up][up] Didn't he hire actual ex-Stalinists to work for him? I don't think he is one himself but he comes off as a useful idiot to the Russians.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#281632: May 28th 2019 at 12:12:51 PM

Got a source for the claim that he hired ex Stalinlists?I admit its a new one

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281633: May 28th 2019 at 12:20:54 PM

Seconded.

and generally practicing "whites first" socialism.

This too seems very strange. Policies that favour the poorest, disproportionately favour the discriminated minorities, because they are disproportionately represented among the poorest. It takes special, intended measures, such as redlining, for this not to be the case.

Edited by Oruka on May 28th 2019 at 12:21:19 PM

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#281634: May 28th 2019 at 12:25:33 PM

[up][up]

I know that that's at one of the standard twitter centrist conspiracy theories thrown at Seumas Milne. Certainly a Marxist to some degree, a hardcore enough anti-imperialist nowadays that I wouldn't be surprised if he'd said something stupid about Syria or Ukraine or something at some point, but given he's blamed by Tories and FBPE types for everything from the existence of left euroscepticism to Salisbury to secretly brainwashing and ordering around every left-wing journalist and pro-Corbyn Labour figure in the UK via Whats App group I doubt he's secretly a Russian spy.

Edited by DeathorCake on May 28th 2019 at 7:25:58 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281635: May 28th 2019 at 12:27:36 PM

The assumption with Sander's policies is that they will not benefit minorities because benefiting the poor equally will fail because racists will make sure it does.

Not that Sanders wants to benefit whites first.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#281636: May 28th 2019 at 12:30:52 PM

True, but if he's not willing to acknowlede that, isn't he part of the problem?

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281637: May 28th 2019 at 12:32:33 PM

Has anyone ever asked him point blank what he would do to avoid his policies being twisted to favour whites only?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#281638: May 28th 2019 at 12:33:43 PM

This too seems very strange. Policies that favour the poorest, disproportionately favour the discriminated minorities, because they are disproportionately represented among the poorest. It takes special, intended measures, such as redlining, for this not to be the case.

Bernie's stance on racial justice has consistently been, "We'll get to you guys, but first we need to take care of all the poor whites."

Which, contrary to seemingly popular belief, won't automatically give poor blacks a leg up.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 28th 2019 at 3:35:03 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281639: May 28th 2019 at 12:33:54 PM

Sanders is acknowledging something that is absolutely correct: many of the most forgotten among our society are indeed poor whites, who tend to be treated very badly by the right (whom they are nevertheless ideologically bound to in a form of Stockholm Syndrome) while supposedly ignored by the left and their focus on racial equality.

Now, in practice, no left-wing politician is talking about ignoring poor whites in favor of blacks and Hispanics, but you wouldn't know that if all you watched or read was centrist media and/or Fox News. Bernie is calling this out, which is entirely valid, but he's doing so in a very race-blind way that comes across as insensitive and pandering.

Bernie is using the "a rising tide lifts all boats" rhetoric, which has some economic justification, but as pointed out above, it will not all by itself redress racial and gender inequality, nor end racism.

Edited by Fighteer on May 28th 2019 at 3:35:50 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281640: May 28th 2019 at 12:35:55 PM

Bernie's stance on racial justice has consistently been, "We'll get to you guys, but first we need to take care of all the poor whites."

Which, contrary to seemingly popular belief, won'tautomatically give poor blacks a leg up.

Sanders has never said this.

Mind you, I'm concerned about all 200,000 hungry children in Kentucky.

Which are about 50-50 minority and whites and see no reason why any of them should go hungry.

It's not an either or problem and the people who would make it an either or problem are the problem.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 28th 2019 at 12:37:04 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#281641: May 28th 2019 at 12:37:12 PM

Yeah, I never got why this forum hates Sanders so much and puts words into his mouth.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#281642: May 28th 2019 at 12:38:13 PM

[up][up]Not in those exact words. But he has talked about putting those issues on the backburner while we take care of "ordinary Americans".

I'll give you three guesses what "ordinary Americans" is supposed to mean.

[up]He puts them in his own mouth.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.

Notably, no female politician has ever said this.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 28th 2019 at 3:40:11 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281644: May 28th 2019 at 12:42:11 PM

I have never believed that Sanders is actually racist, nor blind to the unique problems faced by minorities. What he is doing, however, is pushing a very specific economic agenda that he's been rehearsing for Mephistopheles-knows how many decades, and simply refusing to be moved on his positions or to adapt.

This makes him come across as canned and hollow, and I've commented on this frequently. He brings every conversation back to his talking points, ignores anything that seems to contradict them, and refuses to debate the underlying economics, at least in public. I believe his sincerity, but his record is one of talking endlessly and failing to deliver, while coming across as stubbornly insensitive.

I do not want him to be President. It's as simple as that. I think he'd do a terrible job. Not worse than Trump, of course, and I wouldn't sabotage the Democrats by refusing to vote for him should he win the nomination, but he's not going to win my unqualified support.

Of all the candidates currently running, I trust Elizabeth Warren the most for her sincerity, her work ethic, her track record, and the detail and depth of her policy positions. I don't agree with her one hundred percent, but I don't agree with anyone one hundred percent, and at least she is willing to stand up and debate the details. I feel that, should I have the opportunity to sit down over a few beers and pick her thoughts, she'd be able to meet and answer every one of my questions and arguments.

Edited by Fighteer on May 28th 2019 at 3:47:22 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#281645: May 28th 2019 at 12:51:46 PM

[up][up]Here you go.

"...I think we’ve got to work in two ways. [...] No. 1, we have got to take on Trump’s attacks against the environment, against women, against Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community, we’ve got to fight back every day on those issues. But equally important, or more important: We have got to focus on bread-and-butter issues that mean so much to ordinary Americans.”

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 28th 2019 at 3:52:05 PM

i'm tired, my friend
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281646: May 28th 2019 at 12:59:02 PM

So according to The Hill, the whole "anti-Semitic criticism of Sanders" angle came from this Politico article, which... yeah, gotta admit, that's not a great look.

And in other news - according to the author of "Fire And Fury", Michael Woolf, Mueller had actually drafted an indictment against Trump during the investigation. Mueller's spokesperson has denied this claim, however, so take it with a massive grain of salt based on that.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 28th 2019 at 3:59:17 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#281647: May 28th 2019 at 12:59:41 PM

It might be a poor choice of words, but I'm very sure he didn't mean it in a demeaning way.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#281648: May 28th 2019 at 1:04:05 PM

Sanders stands on one side of a substantial split in the beliefs of members of the Democratic Party specifically and the U.S. left in general: whether we should be focusing on economic or social issues. More precisely, since it's a false dilemma to insist we can only work on one of those, he stands on the pure economics side: the belief that we should focus on fixing the underlying problems in our economy (as he sees them, and to his specifications), and the wave of prosperity that results would wipe out most of the racism derived from economic competition.

This rhetoric strongly appeals to a group of left-leaning people who believe (or want to believe) that we live in a post-racism society, and relatedly that Democrats can win back the white base of America (lost to the Republican Party in the seventies) if we solve their problems. It's a simplistic, one-track view of the world that generates active resentment when people tap on their shoulders and remind them that increasing the minimum wage and breaking up the banks won't solve racial inequality.

Edited by Fighteer on May 28th 2019 at 4:05:31 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#281649: May 28th 2019 at 1:05:06 PM

[up][up]A choice of words, poor or otherwise, can be revealing.

What are we, if not "ordinary"? Extradimensional beings or something?

And even if he didn't mean how it sounded, it's still not a good look and something worth criticizing. That's why we got on Pelosi for saying "all lives matter". No, she didn't mean it in the way it's typically used, but she really should've known better.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 28th 2019 at 4:27:10 AM

i'm tired, my friend
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#281650: May 28th 2019 at 1:24:40 PM

What is not a "great look"? "Hypocrisy" requires more than just being wealthy and preaching compassion; you need to not be practicing what you preach first.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Total posts: 417,856
Top