TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#281201: May 20th 2019 at 8:18:07 PM

I’m not seeing the logic in defending people blindly stating opposition to something they don’t understand because the source is one they don’t like.

It’s the same motivators for both, people don’t understand what they’re being asked, they’re to proud to admit that they don’t understand the question so they reject it out of fear of its association with a cultural group they have negative feelings towards.

Though I’m still curious, “no opinion” isn’t the same as “I don’t understand the question”, how many people admired to not getting the question?

Edited by Silasw on May 20th 2019 at 3:20:31 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#281202: May 20th 2019 at 8:44:08 PM

I think they're objecting to the fact that it seems to have been phrased as a "gotcha" type question when that seems to have been the point of the survey, and then drawing the "racism" conclusion.

Which might be true, but many would clearly answer differently when given more information.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#281203: May 20th 2019 at 8:59:11 PM

Mhm. If you don't know what arabic numbers are, opposing their presence could be a matter of resisting what you see as an arbitrary and costly upheaval to a perfectly functional status quo, rather than racism.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#281204: May 20th 2019 at 9:09:04 PM

The fuck is up with this 'head in the sand' mentality.

Yeah, it's hypothetically possible that there are other reasons than racism why people might oppose permitting Arabic numerals to be taught in American schools if they don't know what those are.

But over here in the real world, we know the main reason is goddamn endemic and systemic racism.

Stop trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the kind of people who have allowed fucking Nazis to rebrand themselves as 'just concerned citizens' already. Please. For all our sakes.

Angry gets shit done.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281205: May 20th 2019 at 9:20:32 PM

[up]Who here is displaying a "head in the sand" mentality?

We're perfectly aware of the issues in our country, thanks.

[up][up]My immediate response to these kinds of "surveys" is to wonder if I'm being pranked or not.

Edited by M84 on May 21st 2019 at 12:21:53 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#281206: May 20th 2019 at 10:52:48 PM

I mean, when I read the question, my first reaction was "Wait, we've been using them widely across the world for the past 800 years. What's with the weird question?"

My second reaction was a pedantic "That's Hindu-Arabic Numerals, thank you kindly."

My third reaction was "Have fun with decimals using Roman Numerals, sucker!"

Edited by TechPriest90 on May 20th 2019 at 1:55:09 PM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#281207: May 20th 2019 at 10:59:02 PM

My first thought was surprise that what "Arabic numbers" refers to isn't more common knowledge.

I guess that shouldn't be too surprising, it's not like I know why I know what the name refers to.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#281208: May 20th 2019 at 11:47:29 PM

The Big Bang isn't a "creation theory" anyway. The question is lying to you.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281209: May 21st 2019 at 12:03:29 AM

The Big Bang isn't a "creation theory" anyway. The question is lying to you.

Eh, Roger Penrose has been known to be a Trolling Creator and challenged it a few times. There's also some other people who want to challenge the idea.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#281210: May 21st 2019 at 12:07:37 AM

The Big Bang theory despite its name doesn't actually say anything about the actual "Big Bang" itself. So it's not really a creation theory. All it really does is describe what is happening with the universe the moment after the initial "Big Bang" happened.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2019 at 3:08:48 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#281211: May 21st 2019 at 12:19:18 AM

I'm just going to point out that expecting people to know we use Arabic numbers is the same as expecting people to know we inherited/modified the Greek alphabet. It's a thing that happened over a long period of years and the influence on our language and our math doesn't really get focused on in favor of historical events.

Not that I'd be opposed to pointing out what influences we get in our languages and so on from old/ancient cultures. Course, I'm of the opinion that we need to improve our history courses in general, so. *shrug*

@Robrecht: Yeah, of course racism is a factor. No one is saying it isn't. But that doesn't mean these polls and questions are actually good ways of outlining the problem, or that it adds anything to the conversation. Because yeah, it's also influenced by people not knowing what A LOT of people don't know. What's it supposed to say that 73% of the people who voted against teaching a Catholic priests' theory of the universe are Democrats who apparently don't realize that a lot Catholic priests contributed to science early on? Is that supposed to be as much of a negative? How do we solve this problem? This poll is kind of useless in solving the problem it's supposedly pointing out to people who already know the problem exists. And in fact kind of seems like the "Ha ha these people are dumb and ignorant" routine you see in some late night talk shows.

Edited by AceofSpades on May 21st 2019 at 2:20:08 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281212: May 21st 2019 at 12:35:47 AM

[up]

It's not a problem to be ignorant, necessarily, of the fact that the Catholic Church has a strong intellectual tradition that includes actual truths about the universe being discovered. I.e. Genetics, Big Bang, and so on.

It does however underline the REAL PROBLEM that people can and do vote on issues they actually know nothing about.

Speaking of which, tomorrow is the vote for the Kentucky State Governor. If we can get Blevin out then the rubber stamping of Hunger, Guns, Tobacco, and Opioids will end.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#281213: May 21st 2019 at 12:48:56 AM

Here is the thing with surveys: You need to ALWAYS consider how someone might interpret the question.

In this case the interpretation is most likely "should creationist theory be part of the curriculum" to which naturally a lot of Democrats said no and "shouldn't the children learn arabic as part of the regular curriculum" to which the "no" could be racism, but it could also be the result of someone thinking "useless subject, if my child learns a foreign language, it should be Spanish".

The only thing this survey tells me is the level of ignorance, since the participants apparently didn't catch on at one point, and the inability to recognize and/or admit the level of ignorance by giving an answer without knowing what someone is talking about. And the fact that the guy who posted this in twitter did is in a "haha, look how racist democrats are" manner makes me even MORE doubtful. It is so easy to manipulate surveys.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281214: May 21st 2019 at 12:54:39 AM

I think the point is the answeree is not very smart for commenting on an issue they don't understand.

Because the answer is, "I don't know who that is."

This pisses me off more than it should (the people not the questionaire) because this is basically Kentucky politics in a nutshell as a shit ton of Republican Kill the Poor initiatives are required to be voted on by the poor themselves.

Take for instance, Right to Work.

"Do you favor the allowing of individuals to work any job they desire regardless of what the government tells you?" is a very misleading way of saying, "You vote to allow workers to work in unsafe, underpaid, slave labor conditions?"

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 21st 2019 at 12:55:02 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#281215: May 21st 2019 at 5:42:08 AM

Who here is displaying a "head in the sand" mentality?

Everyone who's trying to argue 'Well, maybe they answered that because they think it's a useless subject'.

I think the point is the answeree is not very smart for commenting on an issue they don't understand.

I think the point is that regardless of how smart they were, many of the people who answered this survey felt that they did understand the issue based words that triggered their prejudices.

Pretty much everyone who answered 'no' or 'no opinion' to the question of whether Arabic numerals should be part of the American curriculum, regardless of whether they did so based on anti-Arab/Islamophobic sentiment or the notion that there's more important things that should be part of the curriculum first, felt they understood enough about the matter that they didn't feel the need to check what Arabic numerals actually are.

Edited by Robrecht on May 21st 2019 at 2:57:19 PM

Angry gets shit done.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#281216: May 21st 2019 at 5:44:27 AM

This whole topic of conversation proves exactly why Hanlon's Razor is a trope.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#281217: May 21st 2019 at 6:40:55 AM

[up][up] I am not having a "head in the sand" mentality just because I point out that it is impossible to tell how many of those answers were based on racism and how many of them were based on stupidity. In order to figure that out you would have asked a question which might create a similar knee jerk reaction but without a more harmless interpretation. Or you would have to put the question in context with other questions which would create a complete picture. I mean, you can also read out of the big bang question that Democrats are anti-Church, or you can read out of it that they are anti specific ideas certain churches have and are unable to distinguish between them. At the same time it is impossible to tell if the Republicans who voted "yes" are pro big bang theory or hadn't an idea who came up with it either and are fully pro strange ideas the church might have without a second thought.

Edited by Swanpride on May 21st 2019 at 6:42:27 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#281218: May 21st 2019 at 6:43:30 AM

[up][up] Though in this case the incompetence leads to a certain degree of malice. As I mentioned before, a hostile reaction to "Arabic numerals" without knowing what they are indicates that one doesn't actually care what they are.

Speaking for myself I only know what Arabic numerals are because of the Safehold series, where the change from Roman to Arabic numerals is an early plot point.

Edited by sgamer82 on May 21st 2019 at 7:44:44 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#281219: May 21st 2019 at 6:50:51 AM

Never mind that Urdu and Hindi scholars duke it out between each other over who developed the system first... Arabian scholars just pinched the idea when translating manuscripts. tongue

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#281220: May 21st 2019 at 7:09:45 AM

The new Republican strategy of just ignoring House subpoenas since they won't do anything to enforce them anyway continued yesterday. From the WTFJH feed:

2/ Trump instructed former White House counsel Don McGahn to defy a congressional subpoena and skip a House Judiciary Committee hearing scheduled for Tuesday. The committee subpoenaed McGahn to appear to answer questions about Trump's attempts to obstruct justice during the Russia investigation, but the White House presented McGahn with a 15-page legal opinion from the Justice Department that states, "Congress may not constitutionally compel the president’s senior advisers to testify about their official duties." The current White House counsel sent a letter to the committee explaining that Trump instructed McGahn not to appear due to the "constitutional immunity" outlined in the DOJ legal opinion, "and in order to protect the prerogatives of the office of the presidency." (New York Times / ABC News / Washington Post)

Former White House counsel Don McGahn was subpoenaed to testify about Trump's obstruction of justice. Trump told him not to show up, however. So he didn't.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 21st 2019 at 8:10:12 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#281221: May 21st 2019 at 7:10:27 AM

Good news and bad news time.

Good news: Judge orders Trump accounting firm to hand over records to Congress

Bad news: McGahn Skips Hearing, Defying Subpoena, and Democrats’ Anger Swells

Guys, this is gonna keep happening unless you do SOMETHING. EDIT: [nja]

Edited by speedyboris on May 21st 2019 at 9:10:40 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#281222: May 21st 2019 at 7:14:09 AM

And that something should be jail time. I know, I know, "TRUMP DIEHARD LOYALISTS AREN'T AFRAID TO GO TO JAIL FOR HIM!"

...

Remember Michael Cohen?

Michael Cohen was THE GUY. He was Trump's right-hand. His best friend. His closest associate. The most diehard Trumpist you could ever find. Michael Cohen did everything for Trump, he dedicated his life to supporting Trump. It was frequently said that Cohen would take a bullet for Trump. There is nothing you could do to break this guy, nothing that would ever make him betray Donald J. Trump.

...

Michael Cohen turned on Trump when real, actual life consequences suddenly hit him. See, that's the thing about people who would take a bullet for Trump. You can surround yourself with people who will die for you pretty easily. Bravado is easy. It doesn't cost anything.

But you'd be amazed how quickly that crowd starts to thin when someone actually pulls out a gun (metaphorically speaking). Cohen was The Guy Who Would Die For Trump for decades. Then he stood in front of the gun, he was finally given a chance to take that bullet for his Main Man, and his nerve shattered.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 21st 2019 at 8:15:06 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#281223: May 21st 2019 at 7:14:59 AM

While not as strong feeling about it as Tobias, I think we're at the point where action needs to be taken off it's going to be taken at all.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#281224: May 21st 2019 at 7:28:55 AM

Well, if you ask a lot of people if we should ban “Dihydrogen Monoxide”, they’ll say yes, so never underestimate “it sounds strange so it must be bad” mentality.

Edited by megaeliz on May 21st 2019 at 10:30:43 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#281225: May 21st 2019 at 7:37:43 AM

[up][up]If nothing else, put the choices of consequences up for a vote in the house so we know who needs to be primaried.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 21st 2019 at 10:38:02 AM

My musician page

Total posts: 417,856
Top