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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#281051: May 17th 2019 at 12:58:21 PM

@Oruka: In the US law-and-order has received a sidefunction of "Jail black people" but I am not convinced that it has anything to do with anti paedophilia/anti child abuse sentiments or rhetoric. These sentiments exist in too many places of the world and are too widely shared to be reduced down to a race issue. Homophobia? There I'd look a bit more closely.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281052: May 17th 2019 at 1:01:37 PM

There's nothing wrong with being against rape and child abuse. It's the people who use it as a dodge to work some other agenda and stoke hysteria.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281053: May 17th 2019 at 1:05:23 PM

Just like there's nothing wrong about loving the place you were born or grew up in, but some people reclaim that sentiment as their thing and leverage it for violence.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281054: May 17th 2019 at 1:17:12 PM

I always liked a Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal strip that differentiates between Patriotism and Nationalism - namely, this one.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 17th 2019 at 4:18:12 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#281055: May 17th 2019 at 1:22:53 PM

I personally find both concepts to be extremely stupid. Nobody can choose where they are born.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281056: May 17th 2019 at 1:29:11 PM

Yes, but the idea of:

  • You are part of a community
  • It is your job to improve said community

Is hardly controversial.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#281057: May 17th 2019 at 1:30:08 PM

I mean, you can move to a different country and become naturalized and become patriotic about that country.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#281058: May 17th 2019 at 1:31:16 PM

I'm reminded of a time somewhere else that someone suggested that the removal of statues of limitation on rape (and similar laws designed to crack down on it) were just a ploy to imprison black people. Everyone laughed at them. With law and order, it's not necessarily a dogwhistle. Indeed, that's actually a major part of why it's useful as one.

The main problem, I'd argue, is actually more along the lines of selective mercy. The legal system has a lot of leeway to pull punches or not, and they aren't required to show consistency. For example, cops have the power to not ticket people, which means that attractive white women are ticked far less than black men.

Leviticus 19:34
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#281059: May 17th 2019 at 1:39:26 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but then you become part of that community.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#281060: May 17th 2019 at 1:44:59 PM

@Patriotism and Nationalism: I'd argue the difference between the two is arbitrary. When people like it, they call it patriotism. When they don't, they call it nationalism.

Having said that, I would argue patriotism is indeed a virtue of sorts. That you (usually) don't choose your nation is irrelevant, too. It's comparable to familial loyalty-in fact I'd actually say it's a higher concept than that.

Leviticus 19:34
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#281061: May 17th 2019 at 1:53:17 PM

^^It wouldn't be surprising if "selective mercy" (or as it's more commonly known "selective enforcement") were an issue. It's documented for racial bias and if memory serves (but I can't find the source) homophobic bias has been found for paedophilia law enforcement as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#281062: May 17th 2019 at 2:06:27 PM

Yeah, thats another thing. The supposed "link" between homosexuality and pedophilia is still in the minds of far too many people.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281063: May 17th 2019 at 2:33:26 PM

I disagree because many nations come with ideology. Bluntly, a lot of nations do not simply exist as places you live but have expectations of you as a citizen.

You're not allowed to be "just living there" as a Nazi Germany citizen and resisting that because you want to be a patriot to the Pre-Hitler Republic or a hypothetical German state that is not a Nazi is a very different thing than just being neutral or loyalist to said regime.

Patriotism that believs a country should be a certain way can and is highly charged.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281064: May 17th 2019 at 2:35:29 PM

I'm reminded of a time somewhere else that someone suggested that the removal of statues of limitation on rape (and similar laws designed to crack down on it) were just a ploy to imprison black people. Everyone laughed at them. With law and order, it's not necessarily a dogwhistle. Indeed, that's actually a major part of why it's useful as one.

It's a statistical fact that if you actually do find someone falsely accused of rape or even framed by it that there's a very good chance that it was a black man by a white woman (sometimes pressured into it by the police).

But as Spike Lee says, "We need cops. It's not exactly a thing you can do away with."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#281065: May 17th 2019 at 3:07:49 PM

Which vote did Kavanaugh dot do the way he was expected to? I remember it was mentioned a few pages ago that he crossed party lines on some issue...

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#281066: May 17th 2019 at 3:12:44 PM

Something about Apple, I believe.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#281067: May 17th 2019 at 3:42:55 PM

[up]

An anti-trust lawsuit - he wrote the majority opinion on it, but had a narrow scope in that the ruling didn't measure the merit of the suit itself, just that the litigants had the standing to sue. Apple's argument was that only developers on the App Store should have legal standing to sue the company for it, not customers using their software.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281068: May 17th 2019 at 4:13:22 PM

Kavanaugh of all fucking people and this makes me cry, really, is one of the Republicans who has no interest in being the party guy to overturn Roe versus Wade. He's not only ducked and dodged attempts to overturn it in the past but did it this year as the first case with Supreme Court justice—sending it back away from him with Loophole Abuse.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#281069: May 17th 2019 at 4:25:21 PM

Cry laughing, because he's trying to avoid bring what basically every far Right voter hoped he would be?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281070: May 17th 2019 at 4:28:35 PM

According to interviews with associates, Kavanaugh's primary concern and reason for saying he believes Presidents couldn't be indicted (as a blatant job interview to Trump) was he wanted to secure his legacy. Hence his career has long been middle of the road safe small c conservative decision making.

And well....he'll be remembered now.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 17th 2019 at 4:29:29 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281071: May 17th 2019 at 9:21:49 PM

While none of this is new, I love Samantha Bee's point by point detail of how the NRA is about to collapse and it's because of every single horrible thing they did as well as the stupid ones like hiring a black ops spymaster and known criminal as their President.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#281072: May 17th 2019 at 10:20:41 PM

I doubt they'll fully collapse. If they do, the parts that matter will unfortunately resurrect themselves under another name, and they'll still continue to lobby Republicans to vote against any meaningful kind of gun legislation.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#281073: May 17th 2019 at 10:46:46 PM

According to interviews with associates, Kavanaugh's primary concern and reason for saying he believes Presidents couldn't be indicted (as a blatant job interview to Trump) was he wanted to secure his legacy. Hence his career has long been middle of the road safe small c conservative decision making.

And well....he'll be remembered now.

This is really terrible irony. It turns out that being a rapist is not, despite Trump's assumptions, actually a job qualification for being a Religious Right-enabling judge - you need to have hateful views to do the job right, not just have done horrible things.

Definitely cry laughing time.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#281074: May 17th 2019 at 11:11:55 PM

[up][up]True but six tiny NRA are better than one giant mammoth treasonous one.

[up]The question is whether Kavanaugh will go full crazy to get support or just keep his head down. The simple fact is that he's got the position for life so he doesn't have to do anything to keep it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 17th 2019 at 11:16:45 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#281075: May 18th 2019 at 2:01:07 AM

[up] I mean ideally if the organisation splinters they'll spend more time arguing against each other than trying to lobby for damaging policies.


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