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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280926: May 16th 2019 at 12:53:27 PM

The practical question (at least for the White House race) is; can these leftists be made up for by the Union vote in the Midwest if Biden (or a similar nominee) gets the nod?

There's also the question of African American and Hispanic turnout, which was lower than expected in 2016. Biden has high favorability with the first group at least, and is pitching himself hard to them in places like South Carolina.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280927: May 16th 2019 at 12:56:55 PM

There's also the question of African American and Hispanic turnout, which was lower than expected in 2016. Biden has high favorability with the first group at least, and is pitching himself hard to them in places like South Carolina.

He has high favorability, for now.

Whether that will last is the question.

If they're supporting him because of ideological beliefs then it should stay strong, but if they're supporting him because of his connection to Obama then things could get rather bad for him. Biden has a really bad record and discussions about it will inevitably ramp up as the Primary seriously starts.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#280928: May 16th 2019 at 1:08:04 PM

That record is also quite old. I hate to repeat this point, but things that happened decades ago are a weak argument. Especially since if memory serves, the tough-on-crime idea and that infamous 1994 crime law had some fair support under minorities back then, c.f the House rollcall vote there are some prominent African Americans on the "aye" list.

A rather depressing statement on Senate elections.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on May 16th 2019 at 10:25:23 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#280929: May 16th 2019 at 1:27:34 PM

New York Times: Sources say Trump told acting defense secretary Patrick Shanahan he does not want a war with Iran.

Well, too bad you idiot. Your so called "allies" are steering you towards one.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#280930: May 16th 2019 at 1:32:13 PM

[up]

Yeah, about the only thing he could do at this point would be to fire Bolton's walrus-looking ass. He never liked him for that reason anyway.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#280931: May 16th 2019 at 1:39:57 PM

Popping back in to mention that Bill De Blasio is now running for President. I don't know a whole lot about him, other than he's the mayor of NYC. He seems to be unpopular, neither Cynthia Nixon nor Andrew Cuomo seemed all that interested in his endorsement last year for the Governorship primaries.

I also feel obligated to mention that Chelsea Manning has been sent back to prison. And fined money per day at the same time.

She says she'd rather starve to death than cave in. I fear that is precisely what will happen to her. [Redacted for being too close to being personal]

Edited by AzurePaladin on May 16th 2019 at 4:45:34 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#280932: May 16th 2019 at 1:48:36 PM

Cave to what?What exactly do they want from her that she would be prepared to starve to death over?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#280933: May 16th 2019 at 1:51:51 PM

Answering questions about Assange in a format she doesn’t approve of (a closed court session).

She’s really set on defending that rapist shitbag for some reason, I suspect it’s because he may have shown her more compassion than a lot of people who are generally morally better than him.

Also there’s the awkward hypocrisy that Barr gets to be in contempt of Congress and get nothing, but she’s in jail.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#280934: May 16th 2019 at 1:54:14 PM

The same thing as last time. Making her retestify the things she's already said before a secret Grand Jury.

This clip she specifically states that the questions are the same. Its just "re-litigating the court martial.

[up] I think her objections has been perfectly clear, and defending Assange is not one of them. This is starting to actively anger me. Not everything is about Assange. And please do not try to armchair-psychoanalyze her, thank you.

As she SAID, they're asking her questions she's already answered. Not new ones about Assange.

Edited by AzurePaladin on May 16th 2019 at 4:57:35 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280935: May 16th 2019 at 1:56:20 PM

Maybe it's not about Assange so much as it is about the principle of the thing. Well, this kind of commitment and one-sided martyrdom can force sympathy and compassion even for the dumbest of causes.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280936: May 16th 2019 at 2:00:17 PM

Is it a dumb cause?

Wikileaks/Manning's release had immense effects on the world, politics, and journalism.

She has every reason to be proud and willing to fight for what she did.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280937: May 16th 2019 at 2:08:27 PM

nvm

Edited by LeGarcon on May 16th 2019 at 5:10:22 AM

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#280938: May 16th 2019 at 2:08:34 PM

trouble is that she broke the law and leaked secrets that other countries would have absolutely murdered you over,they can't obviously do that in America,but they really,really hate her and wont' be satisfied until the maximum punished is used,or rather never stop punishing because of a grudge.Yes it's hypocritical how Barr isn't being punished for contempt of court,then again they've committed very different crimes

[up]if I am to understand correctly she leaked state secrets alongside information like that,they're punishing for the state secrets and not so much the other stuff

Edited by Ultimatum on May 16th 2019 at 9:10:50 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#280939: May 16th 2019 at 2:10:59 PM

Didn't Assange basically throw her under a bus?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#280940: May 16th 2019 at 2:11:50 PM

[up][up] From what I know it was an accident too. Terrible, but an accident.

She trusted Wikileaks would redact the huge pile of papers she had, but she was wrong.

Wasn't this precise point discussed on these very forums a while back?

Le Garcon - That may be why you don't like her, but its not why they're trying her.

Edited by AzurePaladin on May 16th 2019 at 5:14:44 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280941: May 16th 2019 at 2:14:00 PM

The idea that the stuff sent out endangered lives has been thoroughly debunked and was government propaganda designed to crack down on journalism as a whole. As many papers have said, "I don't like Wikileaks but this is about larger issues than them."

Journalists need to be able to publish material the government wants suppressed to call to task the government and protect their sources.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 16th 2019 at 2:18:46 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280942: May 16th 2019 at 2:18:52 PM

The leaks also didn't endanger troops but showed US coverups of atrocities. Also corruption.

MANNING/WIKILEAKS revelations:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/30/bradley-manning-wikileaks-revelations

• The first revelation came in 2010, from a video showing a US helicopter crew laughing as they launched an air strike killing a dozen people in Baghdad in July 2007, including a photographer and driver working for the Reuters news agency. The footage was recorded on one of two Apache helicopters which were hunting for suspected insurgents. They encounter a group of men on the ground, who do not immediately appear armed, and there is no sign of gunshots. But one helicopter crew opens fire, with shouts of "Hahaha. I hit 'em," and "Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards". As the wounded are helped, one of the helicopters opens fire again, with armour-piercing shells.

• The next tranche of revelations came in July 2010, from documents dating from 2004 to 2009 about the Afghan war. One set raised concerns in the US by suggesting alleged support for the Taliban from Pakistan, particularly that the country's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), had been collaborating with the Taliban.

• The Afghanistan files also included details of an incident from 2007 in which US marines escaping an attack outside the city of Jalalabad fired their guns indiscriminately, killing 19 unarmed civilians and wounding 50 more. While the aftermath of the attack was plain to military authorities, the files suggested, the incident was referred to in an official report only as this: "The patrol returned to JAF [Jalalabad air field]."

• In October 2010 came a series of revelations about events in Iraq. Chief among these was that US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers. The reports of abuse, often supported by medical evidence, describe prisoners shackled, blindfolded and hung by wrists or ankles, and subjected to whipping, punching, kicking or electric shocks.

• Another Iraq-related revelation was that the US collated details of more than 100,000 people killed in Iraq following the invasion of the country, including more than 15,000 deaths that were previously unrecorded. The tally goes against previous protestations by the UK and US that there were any official statistics on the death toll connected to the war.

• The largest and most explosive cache of files was revealed in November 2010 – more than 250,000 classified cables from US embassies, carrying confidential and often blunt diplomatic assessments of US allies and foes. One of the most dramatic of these showed that King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has repeatedly urged the US to attack Iran to destroy its nuclear programme. The Saudi monarch was recorded as having "frequently exhorted the US to attack Iran to put an end to its nuclear weapons programme," one cable stated.

• The embassy cables also said that the US is running a secret intelligence campaign targeted at the leadership of the United Nations, including the secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, and representatives from China, Russia, France and the UK. The classified directive, from 2009, demanded details about the communications systems used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in official communications.

• Other cables painted a hugely unflattering US view of Russia under the leadership of Vladimir Putin, calling it a "virtual mafia state" in which officials, oligarchs and organised crime are bound together by endemic corruption and personal enrichment.

• The cables contained an equally candid view of rampant government corruption in Afghanistan, including details of an incident in October 2009 when the then vice-president, Ahmad Zia Massoud, was stopped and questioned in Dubai carrying $52m in cash.

• On a more intimate note, but of particular interest in Britain, was a cable from Tatiana Gfoeller, Washington's ambassador to Kyrgyzstan, who recounted an "astonishingly candid" and at times rude performance by Prince Andrew at a brunch with overseas business people in which he railed against British anticorruption investigators, journalists and the French.

• The final tranche of revelations, in April 2011, came from 759 "detainee assessment" dossiers about those held at the Guantánamo Bay prison, written between 2002 and 2009. They spell out the extent of involvement US authorities believe each detainee has had with al-Qaida, the Taliban or other terror groups. The files showed that some prisoners had long ago been cleared for release but remained detained.

Edit:

Obama also commuted Mannings sentence. It should be over.

Editx 2:

The Vladimir Putin one is fascinating given Assange accusations. The Andrew one is just hilarious (albeit unsurprising).

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 16th 2019 at 2:29:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280943: May 16th 2019 at 2:29:53 PM

My feelings on Manning are mixed.

She irresponsibly turned over information to a hostile foreign asset and endangered the lives of American assets and allies because of that. Some of the last few Jewish refugees in Iraq and Afghanistan are now dead because of her.

However her prison conditions were torture and completely unacceptable and Obama justly commuted her sentence and that should be the end of it.

The current re-targeting of her is almost certainly just harassment on the part of Congress and it shows the hypocrisy between her treatment and Barr's but giving a short testimony before them seems like a very useless hill to die on.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280944: May 16th 2019 at 2:31:29 PM

The information listed above absolutely needed to be revealed.

But that's my view.

The current re-targeting of her is almost certainly just harassment on the part of Congress and it shows the hypocrisy between her treatment and Barr's but giving a short testimony before them seems like a very useless hill to die on.

It depends if she's actually afraid what she says in a private court will be recorded as something different. Perhaps in preparation for false charges.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 16th 2019 at 2:32:27 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280945: May 16th 2019 at 2:31:38 PM

The cables Manning leaked didn’t endanger US troops.

They did directly lead to the death of quite a few Iraqi and Afghan translators and informants and endanger many more, but Wikileaks supporters are usually happy to look the other way there.

As is usual for Wikileaks, there was a massive amount of collateral damage. It’s well established that Assange doesn’t give a shit who he hurts if it means taking the US down a notch.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 16th 2019 at 2:33:03 AM

They should have sent a poet.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#280946: May 16th 2019 at 2:32:36 PM

[up]x3 Well, why did'ntya just say so? That's mostly my opinion of her, too.

The only thing I disagree with is the uselessness of taking a moral stand, as per why I keep bringing it up, but yeah. Let it go on the record that I don't think she's flawless.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280947: May 16th 2019 at 2:33:45 PM

[up][up]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/bradley-manning-sentencing-hearing-pentagon

Well, the Pentagon says otherwise.

The US counter-intelligence official who led the Pentagon's review into the fallout from the Wiki Leaks disclosures of state secrets told the Bradley Manning sentencing hearing on Wednesday that no instances were ever found of any individual killed by enemy forces as a result of having been named in the releases.

Brigadier general Robert Carr, a senior counter-intelligence officer who headed the Information Review Task Force that investigated the impact of Wiki Leaks disclosures on behalf of the Defense Department, told a court at Fort Meade, Maryland, that they had uncovered no specific examples of anyone who had lost his or her life in reprisals that followed the publication of the disclosures on the internet. "I don't have a specific example," he said.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 16th 2019 at 2:34:44 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280948: May 16th 2019 at 2:34:16 PM

Edited by Oruka on May 16th 2019 at 2:35:00 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280949: May 16th 2019 at 2:35:00 PM

[up]You think so?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280950: May 16th 2019 at 2:37:15 PM

I was being sarcastic.

I deleted my post because I saw you were doing a very good job and realized I had nothing to contribute and would be better off remaining silent and watching the master. /Sincerity Mode


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