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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#280651: May 14th 2019 at 5:36:46 PM

[up]x6 Why do you need Congressional Democrats to do more to prove that the Republicans are being obstructionist? You can start pointing the existing evidence on social media now!

Edited by thok on May 14th 2019 at 5:37:07 AM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280652: May 14th 2019 at 5:38:38 PM

Trick them into making a slip-up that will expose their true nature to swing voters, or getting as many damning evidence out as possible that proves theright's true nature.

They show their nature every single day. There's mountains of evidence already.

When the enemy is digging under you, you don't let yourself get undermined. You go find them where they are, in the tunnels.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280653: May 14th 2019 at 5:43:00 PM

So the left can call them cowards (like we're fucking doing now?) and be further demoralized? Sure, that sounds like a good idea.

Like I said, Morton's Fork.

So that it can be the headline.

Instead of "Nancy Pelosi says Dems might impeach Trump at some point in the future maybe," the headline should be "Nancy Pelosi says Trump cannot be impeached, and that it's all because of Mitch McConnell."

Followed by "William Barr and Steve Mnuchin arrested for Contempt of Congress."

Which would then be followed by "Trump tax returns surrendered to Congress by New Acting Treasury Director who, after seeing what happened to Mnuchin, realizes that Congress f*cking means business."

Y'know. Owning up to the shit that can't be done and keeping the national conversation centered on the exact reason those things can't be done, while also f*cking doing things that can be done and that make splashy headlines.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 6:43:42 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#280654: May 14th 2019 at 5:44:50 PM

While I find myself more on the side of "Impeachment just for symbolic statement isn't worth it" I do think it should be made clear it's less "Trump hasn't done anything worth impeaching" and more "Republicans, and Mitch Mc Connell, specifically, won't allow it regardless anything that Trump's actual done or is guilty of".

Edited by LSBK on May 14th 2019 at 7:47:50 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280655: May 14th 2019 at 5:45:05 PM

[up][up][up] So what are you really proposing here? That the Democrats get just as dirty as the Republicans?

I suppose that means we should start engaging in widespread voter fraud, fully embrace populism, and broadcast as much propaganda as possible on all of our news networks. There’s no way that could possibly backfire on us.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 5:45:26 AM

They should have sent a poet.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280656: May 14th 2019 at 5:51:16 PM

Instead of "Nancy Pelosi says Dems might impeach Trump at some point in the future maybe," the headline should be "Nancy Pelosi says Trump cannot be impeached, and that it's all because of Mitch Mc Connell."

It is staggeringly optimistic to think that even with such a headline, the public won't find a way to blame Dems anyway. I seem to remember multiple posts claiming that Democrats were simply making excuses.

Followed by "William Barr and Steve Mnuchin arrested for Contempt of Congress."

Followed by "Democrats may have acted too quickly/overplayed their hand/etc." if everything surrounding the arrest isn't 120% airtight.

Which would then be followed by "Trump tax returns surrendered to Congress by New Acting Treasury Director who, after seeing what happened to Mnuchin, realizes that Congress f*cking means business."

Isn't that a position Trump would get to pick who to fill? Meaning he could just pick some Trump lapdog who does whatever he tells them regardless of if it's in his best interests or not?

This is the problem with these arguments. You're all baselessly assuming the best case scenario.

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280657: May 14th 2019 at 5:53:22 PM

[up][up] We basically already are. The difference is that Republicans are playing dirty in a way that gets results. Democrats are just spinning their wheels.

At this point, that is where we're at. There is something that can be done right now. There is an action that can be taken. It's already half-finished. The House Judiciary Committee voted to hold William Barr in contempt. It moved to the floor of the House for a vote. Nancy Pelosi won't bring it to vote, leaving it to die on the same spot on her desk that so many bills die on Mitch's.

They can vote on contempt tomorrow. They can have William Barr in handcuffs by end of the day.

But Pelosi refuses. She insists on waiting, on stalling, on buying time. All while lying to the American public by pretending that impeachment is an option when it's not.

House Democrats aren't resisting Trump. They're just playing the optics of resistance. There's no sincerity in their effort to provide a check and balance against our corrupt Executive administration. It's just politics.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 6:54:47 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280658: May 14th 2019 at 5:54:27 PM

[up][up]Exactly, you should hope for the best case, but prep for the worst case.

Also, minor nitpick to this post, but my quoted line of "The Right certainly thinks so" was nothing more than a half-joking response to the other part of the post quoted above it " So, what, two wrongs make a right?"

Edited by sgamer82 on May 14th 2019 at 6:56:03 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280659: May 14th 2019 at 5:55:17 PM

Isn't that a position Trump would get to pick who to fill? Meaning he could just pick some Trump lapdog who does whatever he tells them regardless of if it's in his best interests or not?

Do you honestly think that the number of people willing to go to jail for Trump is literally infinite? That no Trump appointee would ever put their own self-interest above Trump once they realize that Congress will literally send them to jail?

Because we've seen an awful lot of people turncoat once actual jailtime was on the line. The only reason Mnuchin and Barr are so bold right now is because they think that Congress is full of spineless cowards who won't dare act against them. They think they're untouchable.

I guarantee you, you'd see a dramatic shift in attitudes once people started being arrested. Trump is a bully, leading a pack of bullies. Speaking as a former bully, you don't beat a bully by ignoring him and waiting for him to go away. And appealing to an authority figure is not an option, because House Dems are the authority figure and they're the ones being bullied.

Dems need to deliver a broken nose to one or two of Trump's boys. They need to hit Trump's cronies hard enough that the other cronies go, "WHOA SHIT, I don't want to be THAT guy," when the House turns its eye on them. They need to make the Trump Cabinet feel vulnerable again.

Reassert that the rule of law has actual teeth and you'll see an upswing in the number of people agreeing to obey it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 7:03:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280660: May 14th 2019 at 6:09:00 PM

Followed by "William Barr and Steve Mnuchin arrested for Contempt of Congress."

Which would then be followed by

Which would be followed by "Secret Service Frees Unjustly Jailed Cabinet Who Followed Legal Executive Guidelines."

There's a reason all these subpoenas are going through the courts. Congress says the laws say one thing, the Executive Branch says they mean another, which means the Judiciary has to mediate. That headline can't happen if Trump and his cronies don't have a legal leg to stand on, which is why the House isn't rushing things.

In some of these instances, the subpoenas weren't even necessary. They could have just gone straight to the courts to start proceedings to force Trump officials without it. They decided to issue them anyway on advice of House lawyers because it makes their legal stance stronger, to prove they exhausted every means to normal compliance before resorting to legislative punitive actions.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280661: May 14th 2019 at 6:20:58 PM

So under no circumstances are Democrats going after corrupt and crooked evil doers better than not doing so.

Because some hypothetical idiots prefer crooked Democrats to law abiding ones.

And the Republican propaganda machine will say mean things about them? Which they're already doing.

I remind you Trump wants both Mueller and Biden investigated (and hopefully arrested).

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 6:21:19 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#280662: May 14th 2019 at 6:26:14 PM

[up] Firstly, they are going after corrupt and crooked evil doers; unlike Trump and his Republicans, Democrats are doing it the legal way.

Secondly, no one here should care about what Trumpeteers and Teapublicans think, but we all need to care about what Moderates think, because we need the Moderates on our side and not on their side. Doing things the legal way like this is what's keeping Moderates on our side and away from Trump's side. If Democrats start abusing their power, it's going to turn off Moderates.

And third, Trump going after either men is going to plummet his approval with Moderates, and his approval is already abysmal with them.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280663: May 14th 2019 at 6:51:25 PM

Do you honestly think that the number of people willing to go to jail for Trump is literally infinite? That no Trump appointee would ever put their own self-interest above Trump once they realize that Congress will literally send them to jail?

Do you honestly think that the well has run dry on people who not only stan for Trump, but will suicidally bend over backwards for him if given the chance to do so?

Trump doesn't hire people based on how pragmatic they are. He hires people who he believes are ready to die for him, probably literally. There aren't "lItEraLlY iNfInItE" people like Barr and Scaramucci, but there are fucking enough of them.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 14th 2019 at 9:56:21 AM

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280664: May 14th 2019 at 7:12:31 PM

Firstly, they are going after corrupt and crooked evil doers; unlike Trump and his Republicans, Democrats are doing it the legal way.

I'm seeing a lot of tumbleweeds blowing past.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280666: May 14th 2019 at 8:04:42 PM

Even though Vermont is the state with the most people moving to it, the description of it in the article is none too flattering, low unemployment rate aside. Though at least they mentioned the most important thing from Vermont: maple syrup.

At $34 billion, Vermont has the smallest economy in the U.S. Its five-year average unemployment rate of 3.6% was the fifth lowest among states, but Vermont suffers from business costs that are 12% above the national average. The state’s economic outlook is also weak with job and income growth expected to badly lag the rest of the country over the next five years. Vermont is the leading producer of maple syrup in the country.

TBH, I'm surprised California isn't on either list.

Edited by M84 on May 14th 2019 at 11:05:45 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280667: May 14th 2019 at 8:05:23 PM

That 0% job growth...

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280668: May 14th 2019 at 8:06:25 PM

Come to think of it, isn't Sanders' one of Vermont's Senators?

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280669: May 14th 2019 at 8:08:29 PM

Yup.

It's why Lockheed has a place making F-35 parts there.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280670: May 14th 2019 at 8:09:38 PM

Yeah, Sanders was one of the major proponents of the F-35 project.

Bernie Sanders, friend to the MIC.

Edited by M84 on May 14th 2019 at 11:10:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#280671: May 14th 2019 at 8:12:48 PM

Vermont had negative migration. It's one of those older, dying states with a really low birthrate and little migration.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280672: May 14th 2019 at 8:14:53 PM

Its placement in that list is weird then. I figured the first ten were the states people were fleeing, and the next ten were the states people were fleeing towards.

Vermont being #1 in the second list despite having negative migration...how does that work?

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#280673: May 14th 2019 at 8:21:58 PM

I'm confused about that myself, actually. Not sure what happened there.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280674: May 14th 2019 at 8:30:21 PM

Vermont has been offering people money to move there. Companies in Vermont have also been given breaks by the government for hiring out of state.

It’s possible that negative migration trend has reversed, at least temporarily.

They should have sent a poet.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#280675: May 14th 2019 at 8:31:40 PM

Alabama's Senate has passed the total abortion ban. Still hasn't been signed by the governor, but she is still expected to do so.

Also, Florida governor Ron deSantis signed a federal NDA preventing him from revealing which two counties got hacked by Russians back in 2016.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

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