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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280626: May 14th 2019 at 4:37:49 PM

There's a year and a half left of Trump to break the law.

And if Dems actually move on something and fuck up in even the slightest of ways, it'll be four years and a half.

This isn't about cowardice or whatever. It's about PR and moving around the media's spin game.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 14th 2019 at 7:39:14 AM

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280627: May 14th 2019 at 4:38:48 PM

And they will deserve it if they let him get away with murder.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280628: May 14th 2019 at 4:39:30 PM

To reveal the truth to the American people.

We already did that. There's a 400-page document revealing the truth to the American people. So what are we doing with this document now? We're past the discovery phase. We've discovered. The next step is action on the discovery.

Information that's never used for anything has no function. It might as well not exist. Investigation is a means to an end. It's time to start working on an end. Otherwise, it just looks like Republicans were right all along when they said this is a naked political act with no true legislative value.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 5:40:40 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280629: May 14th 2019 at 4:40:37 PM

First of all, no they won't. Second, If Dems take action and aren't successful he'll "get away with murder" anyway.

For fuck's sake, Democrats can't just snap their fingers and suddenly all the bad people are in jail. That's not how this works. All this shit about "Dems being complicit" or "Dems secretly wanting four more years of Trump" is just pointless doomsaying (or disasturbating, if you prefer), walking off the track before the race has even ended.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 14th 2019 at 7:44:03 AM

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280630: May 14th 2019 at 4:42:53 PM

To put it simply: if we don't intend to do anything with Trump's tax returns, then Mnuchin is right. There is no legislative value in requesting them.

If we don't intend to do anything with the unredacted Mueller report, then Barr's right. There is no legislative value in demanding it.

If we don't intend to do anything with Mueller's testimony, then Trump's right. There is no reason to let him testify.

If we're not actually trying to accomplish anything by investigating Trump, then we're just wasting America's time with NEAT TRIVIA FACTS. It's time to shit or get off the pot.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 5:43:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280631: May 14th 2019 at 4:46:28 PM

Hasn't it been established several times that they are doing something with it, just not with the lightning-speed quickness we all would like? Crossing your arms, turning your nose up, and going "I'll believe it when I see it" doesn't accomplish anything.

This is the equivalent of ordering a full-course meal at a restaurant, then shouting "WHERE THE FUCK IS MY ORDER?" as soon as the waiter leaves.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 14th 2019 at 7:48:54 AM

i'm tired, my friend
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280632: May 14th 2019 at 4:47:38 PM

Charles: Even including obstruction impeachment is purely political. Again, it is not a legal process. Trial and conviction are completely separate from impeachment. Congress has no legal responsibility to impeach a president who has committed crimes.

It’s a political function, not an enforcement function.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 4:49:08 AM

They should have sent a poet.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280633: May 14th 2019 at 5:06:06 PM

Hasn't it been established several times that they are doing something with it, just not with the lightning-speed quickness we all would like? Crossing your arms, turning your nose up, and going "I'll believe it when I see it" doesn't accomplish anything.

This is the equivalent of ordering a full-course meal at a restaurant, then shouting "WHERE THE FUCK IS MY ORDER?" as soon as the waiter leaves.

No. It's been established what they're not doing.

They're not impeaching.

They're not arresting.

Remember when we all made fun of Republicans in 2017 because they had eight years to figure out what they wanted to do if they took power and yet couldn't even repeal the ACA if their lives depended on it?

That's where we are now. Democrats have had two years to figure out what they wanted to do with the Mueller Report. Now it's here and they're shrugging and going, "Uh, maybe we'll charge William Barr an Asshole Fee? Maybe. We'll talk about it."

House Democrats talked a good game when they didn't have any power to actually do anything. But push just came to shove two weeks ago, and they're waffling. I didn't campaign for these people so they could hide under their desks and just wait for Hurricane Trump to blow over.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 6:08:58 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280634: May 14th 2019 at 5:09:19 PM

This is starting to sound like Frank Miller's prose, or the Arsonist's documentary. Namely, it's pointless, it's repetitive, it's unproductive, it's repetitive, people talk past each other, it's repetitive, and it's repetitive.

Tobias, I agree with you 100%, but you've already made your argument several times and they keep mishearing it and replying to a dumber version. It was understandable the first time, but by now you should just give up for the sake of moving things along. Your point is made, bro.

Edited by Oruka on May 14th 2019 at 5:11:57 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280635: May 14th 2019 at 5:10:17 PM

What options do we have that won't be seen as partisan power plays by the public?

Oh really when?
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280636: May 14th 2019 at 5:13:48 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#280637: May 14th 2019 at 5:14:28 PM

[up]x4 The Democrats don't actually have enough control of the Senate to actually do anything useful about impeachment. (Similarly, arresting Barr would likely end up with a 5-4 partisan decision in the Supreme Court.) At some point people need to realize the major problem is that a large portion of the Republican party is OK with obstructing justice to protect Trump, and blame them for doing the obstruction instead of blaming the people who are being obstructed.

Edited by thok on May 14th 2019 at 5:14:41 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280638: May 14th 2019 at 5:15:40 PM

[up][up] So, what, two wrongs make a right?

We can be strategic about it without sinking to their level.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 5:16:05 AM

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280639: May 14th 2019 at 5:16:01 PM

The Right certainly thinks so.

[down] What?

Edited by sgamer82 on May 14th 2019 at 6:17:49 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#280640: May 14th 2019 at 5:16:07 PM

I have been deafened by his post,oh dear

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#280641: May 14th 2019 at 5:17:24 PM

EDIT: Self-thumped for no longer being necessary

Edited by Reflextion on May 15th 2019 at 7:19:37 AM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280642: May 14th 2019 at 5:21:17 PM

It's not about having a moral high ground, it's about controlling the narrative.

Oh really when?
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280643: May 14th 2019 at 5:22:25 PM

Gah, fine. Can we not do the thing where people hear tone but not content?

We can be strategic about it without sinking to their level.

The Right certainly thinks so.

They're counting on it. That itself is their strategy.

[up]There's—how—look, the Fox News viewers are always going to get the predefined spin, the CNN viewers will always be told a Golden Mean Fallacy ("A militia group detained migrants at the border. The ACLU calls it kidnapping. United Constitutional Patriots says actions legal." Are these people for fucking real?!), and the rest know what is sitting in the Oval Office and want it out, out, damed orange spot. So, by all means, tell me, what narrative is there to control? What's the story that we're afraid will be told, that won't be told anyway?

Edited by Oruka on May 14th 2019 at 5:29:14 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280644: May 14th 2019 at 5:26:51 PM

It's not about having a moral high ground, it's about controlling the narrative.

This. Like I said, even left-wing media has ridiculous spin when it comes to Democrats, to say nothing of CNN. Dems know this and have to carefully walk around it. It sucks but that's how it is.

@Oruka: I can't speak for the rest of the thread, but when I see a giant block of all caps screaming, I typically don't want to hear the content.

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280645: May 14th 2019 at 5:27:34 PM

The Democrats don't actually have enough control of the Senate to actually do anything useful about impeachment. (Similarly, arresting Barr would likely end up with a 5-4 partisan decision in the Supreme Court.) At some point people need to realize the major problem is that a large portion of the Republican party is OK with obstructing justice to protect Trump, and blame them for doing the obstruction instead of blaming the people who are being obstructed.

And that will happen just as soon as Democrats stop pretending that impeachment is totally a thing we're considered, something we might do, we just need a couple more investigations, it's on the table, we're talking about it, we're considering it, we need to talk about it, stay tuned next week when we'll maybe have reached a decision possibly!"

Just come out and say it. We're not talking about impeachment because Republican obstruction makes it impossible. Hammer that statement instead of acting like it's totally still an option on the table.

The Democrats should be spinning the narrative so that the lack of an impeachment is actually Republicans' fault. The message should be that they can't impeach. Right now, it's that they just won't.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 6:28:51 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#280646: May 14th 2019 at 5:29:36 PM

@Oruka: No we can't: you can have the best arguments and all the evidence in the world, if you don't deliver it in a reasonable manner,no one's gonna listen to you.

Unfair? Perhaps, but that's life for you.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280647: May 14th 2019 at 5:30:08 PM

[up][up]So the left can call them cowards (like we're fucking doing now?) and be further demoralized? Sure, that sounds like a good idea.

Like I said, Morton's Fork.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 14th 2019 at 8:30:54 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280648: May 14th 2019 at 5:31:37 PM

[up][up]See, that's precisely what I'm talking about. "This person is expressing intense emotions! This means I can and should dismiss everything they say!" You're not asking for reasonableness, you're asking for restraint. The situation is catastrophic, and yet we somehow need to pretend like it's business as usual.

Edited by Oruka on May 14th 2019 at 5:34:27 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#280649: May 14th 2019 at 5:32:35 PM

That kinda makes this a Xanatos Gambit...

  • Play on the Right's subterran levels and Bothsidists will feel vindicated.
  • Continue with the decorum and the Right continues their usual BS.

The best way out of this Morton's Fork might be to Out-Gambit them. Trick them into making a slip-up that will expose their true nature to swing voters, or getting as many damning evidence out as possible that proves theright's true nature. The easiest way out however might just be to focus on rallying those already loyal to your party to vote, and as many of those to vote for the same democrat, while having that candidate be presented as the best possible alternative to Trump. That last part is tricky since that candidate is not competing with Just Trump but 21 other Democrats at this point.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on May 14th 2019 at 5:33:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280650: May 14th 2019 at 5:36:21 PM

Anyway, I'm dropping it. Being angry and frustrated and disappointed here isn't helping anything.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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