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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280601: May 14th 2019 at 3:23:56 PM

Let me ask you this: If we won't impeach anyone, won't arrest anyone, and won't even push back against obstruction, then what is even the point of the investigation?

What are we trying to accomplish here?

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 4:24:31 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280602: May 14th 2019 at 3:25:29 PM

Let me ask you this: If we won't impeach anyone, won't arrest anyone, and won't even push back against obstruction, then what is even the point of the investigation?

To reveal the truth to the American people.

And the idea that we won't push back against obstruction is frankly a lie, the fines exist. It's objectively false to say that we aren't pushing back against Obstruction. Even if they are inadequate that does not mean that they do not exist.

And it has not been proven that they are.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#280603: May 14th 2019 at 3:33:58 PM

Biggest problem with impeachment is that even with Trump gone you still have a Republican Government ruling,another guy would would step to be President,in this case Pence

Electing him out of office means going the long way around but it's worth the journey,you can play the impeachment card if Trump wins the election because frankly it;s the only one you've got left at that point

Edited by Ultimatum on May 14th 2019 at 10:35:01 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280604: May 14th 2019 at 3:43:19 PM

Except no fines have been levied yet.

It was suggested as an alternative and now they're backing from that.

Biggest problem with impeachment is that even with Trump gone you still have a Republican Government ruling,another guy would would step to be President,in this case Pence

Electing him out of office means going the long way around but it's worth the journey,you can play the impeachment card if Trump wins the election because frankly it;s the only one you've got left at that point

It's not about "winning" it's about the law. Pence being President isn't the point. It's holding the President accountable.

I think there's a weird disconnect between people outraged about the illegality and those who think it's just about a popularity contest.

No, it's about holding up the law.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 3:45:46 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DarkPaladinX Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#280605: May 14th 2019 at 3:48:00 PM

I also like to point out that an opposing political party attempting to impeach a President is considered political suicide, which is why Nancy Pelosi is being pragmatic when it comes to impeaching Donald Trump, since Donald Trump would use the impeachment attempt as an opportunity to strengthen his base, gain more popularity, and increase his chances of getting re-elected while potentially destroying the Democratic Party (also doesn't help to note that the Republicans are staunchly loyal to Donald Trump and his authoritarian policies while Republicans still hold control on the Senate, making impeachment nearly impossible).

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280606: May 14th 2019 at 3:49:06 PM

And?

Why does that affect Barr?

Or the Secretary of the Treasury?

Or any of the other criminals?

I said even if you throw out impeachment, it's bullshit and indefensible.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280607: May 14th 2019 at 3:58:45 PM

https://apnews.com/a2af9039533b42bba0e4e04af11ecd67

Russians proven to have hacked some voting machines.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280608: May 14th 2019 at 3:58:51 PM

Because most Americans won't see it as Democrats upholding the law and will instead see it as partisan mudslinging as usual.

Whatever our actions are we need to make sure we control the narrative.

Oh really when?
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280609: May 14th 2019 at 3:59:18 PM

Impeachments aren’t about the law, though, they’re about politics. The law would be prosecuting Trump for various crimes after he left office, impeachment is a political act. It assigns no charges and doesn’t hinge on guilt or innocence.

I’m also sensing that most of the complaints center around the fact that the Democrats aren’t moving quick enough. Bringing legal punishments to bear against a sitting attorney general isn’t like writing a ticket, we shouldn’t expect it to happen overnight.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 4:00:35 AM

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280610: May 14th 2019 at 3:59:32 PM

[up]So your assumption is most Americans are stupid.

Its the job of politicians to explain why they do it but not to bow to mob rule either.

If you don't treat crimes like crimes then the public will not see them as crimes.

The government's legitimacy cannot be thrown away to play political games and everyone who would deserves to be locked up with Trump, Republican or Democrat. No one is above the law.

Impeachments aren’t about the law, though, they’re about politics. The law would be prosecuting Trump for various crimes after he left office, impeachment is a political act. It assigns no charges and doesn’t hinge on guilt or innocence.

Not impeaching, not arresting is a political act. It shows Democrats cannot be trusted to fulfill their oaths of office and should be replaced. Their opinions do not matter, it is not a party game. They are obstructing justice by not carrying out their duties.

I can't imagine myself voting for people like this. It is worse than Trump and I hope America's democrats let them know.

America has a right to be outraged at their behavior.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:03:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280611: May 14th 2019 at 4:03:51 PM

[up] Not stupid, but it’s very safe to say a large portion of Americans are uniformed when it comes to politics.

And the idea that the democrats are obstructing justice by not moving fast enough is just silly, by the way.

I’ll also point out, again, that impeachment has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Congress has no legal obligation to impeach a guilty president.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 4:04:36 AM

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280612: May 14th 2019 at 4:07:23 PM

Fast enough is ridiculous because they're not moving. They started saying they were going to arrest Barr then they said they might do a fine, and then they're saying just a condemnation.

What, in your opinion, is the proper response if they're not going to do ANYTHING other than wait it out to the election?

I’ll also point out, again, that impeachment has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Congress has no legal obligation to impeach a guilty president.

That's your defense, really?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:07:53 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280613: May 14th 2019 at 4:15:34 PM

It's not about "winning" it's about the law. Pence being President isn't the point. It's holding the President accountable.

I think there's a weird disconnect between people outraged about the illegality and those who think it's just about a popularity contest.

No, it's about holding up the law.

That 'popularity contest' is the difference between two more years of Trump or a Democratic President alongside a potential Democratic Congress.

It is incredibly irresponsible to downplay the significance of that, winning absolutely matters.

Except no fines have been levied yet.

It was suggested as an alternative and now they're backing from that.

What evidence do you have that they're backing away from it?

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 14th 2019 at 4:15:56 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280614: May 14th 2019 at 4:16:38 PM

Because:

1. They are not doing it 2. They have made public statements about alternate punishments than arrest OR fines.

I'm just asking, what happens if they back down.

And keep backing down.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:17:17 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280615: May 14th 2019 at 4:18:04 PM

[up]So your assumption is most Americans are stupid.
I want to say "no", but if I'm being honest that often feels like the safest assumption to make at any given moment. Relying on the general masses to react the way you want/expect is a gamble and a half.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280616: May 14th 2019 at 4:22:23 PM

1. They are not doing it 2. They have made public statements about alternate punishments than arrest OR fines.

Ah, so you don't have evidence.

Got it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280617: May 14th 2019 at 4:23:45 PM

A judge is expediting the lawsuit Trump is making to stop Congress from getting his financial records at Mazar. He called Trump's actions a delaying tactic and will probably rule on it as soon as next week.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280618: May 14th 2019 at 4:29:28 PM

[up][up]So, you actually going to answer or not?

Tell the truth.

How would you feel?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:29:58 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#280619: May 14th 2019 at 4:29:40 PM

That’s not a defense, that’s the reality of impeachment. You can go back and forth about how Democrats are obstructing justice this or not doing their duty that, but the reality is impeachment has nothing to do with legal justice. Impeachment is a legislative check on the executive, not a criminal proceeding.

And yeah, that’s weak as hell. You’re basically saying “they haven’t done anything yet, so they’ll never do anything.”

Edited by archonspeaks on May 14th 2019 at 4:31:05 AM

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280620: May 14th 2019 at 4:31:36 PM

As well as the reality that impeachment is doomed to fail and highly likely to backfire for reasons you, of all of us here, are intimately aware of.

Edited by sgamer82 on May 14th 2019 at 5:32:19 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280621: May 14th 2019 at 4:32:37 PM

That’s not a defense, that’s the reality of impeachment. You can go back and forth about how Democrats are obstructing justice this or not doing their duty that, but the reality is impeachment has nothing to do with legal justice.

Except for impeachable offenses including Obstruction.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280622: May 14th 2019 at 4:33:55 PM

The problem is, as your yourself said, "The law is only as good as a person who will enforce it." and, as things stand, the one in charge of that enforcement will be Mitch McConnell.

Edited by sgamer82 on May 14th 2019 at 5:36:15 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280623: May 14th 2019 at 4:35:04 PM

It's why I'm so angry as it's not impeachment will not happen, I accept that. It's all the other stuff.

I would still file impeachment process and spend the entire time investigating and revealing to the public the depths of his crimes.

But even if that can't happen—the other criminals need to be arrested now.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:35:44 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#280624: May 14th 2019 at 4:35:26 PM

I think what we're seeing here is one of, if not the biggest problem with the situation Dems have found themselves in. People want them to do things NOWNOWNOW, regardless of whether or not they actually can, or if it has a chance of backfiring on them sooner or later.

This isn't the first time I've likened it to a Morton's Fork.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280625: May 14th 2019 at 4:36:26 PM

There's a year and a half left of Trump to break the law.

If not now, when?

After he's won because the Democrats haven't acted like he's broken the law?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 14th 2019 at 4:36:55 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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