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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280326: May 11th 2019 at 8:29:53 AM

The article Fourthspartan quoted points out that there's a bit of a gray area in this. That's the heart of the issue.

The House is exploring all potential options — the way that article is phrased, they are only exploring the idea of a fine if arresting the AG and the others on their list proves to be unfeasible. It still seems like the House wants to go with the arrest after the contempt vote.

This is an extremely complicated situation. I for one can't fault the House for debating all of their potential options, nor do I really fault them for deciding to get all of this contempt stuff out of the way at once out of a later date as opposed to holding multiple contempt votes.

Edited by M84 on May 11th 2019 at 11:32:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#280327: May 11th 2019 at 8:40:48 AM

[up]

On top of that, Eric Holder was deemed to be in Contempt of Congress over the refusal to turn over 1,300 pages relating to Operation Fast & Furious, and he wasn't arrested. So to do so to Barr would be an escalation without precedent (or at least none in recent history). It was eventually discovered by the Inspector General that Holder only learned of the operation in 2011 (moving quickly to end it entirely), and previous AG's were never informed about the "gunwalking" aspects of it.

And it's worth noting that a few establishment figures are taking umbrage with how swiftly the Committee acted on holding the Contempt vote with Barr by directly comparing it to Holder's situation, where it occurred after a year or so of back-and-forth.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 11th 2019 at 11:59:28 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280328: May 11th 2019 at 8:59:34 AM

Operation Fast and Furious? [Checks the wikipedia article]

The folowing video doesn't exactly apply to the situation, but it conveys my feelings:

Now that I look at this, it sums up pretty much everything the President ever says.

Edited by Oruka on May 11th 2019 at 9:02:11 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280329: May 11th 2019 at 9:17:28 AM

House Ways and Means Chairman Subpoenas Trump's tax returns

Honestly, this is why I can't take seriously the claims that the Democrats are caving to Trump. Even if their decision to fine Barr is a bad one it should be obvious that they're playing hardball.

Frankly, to me, it just looks like some people want to assume the worst.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280330: May 11th 2019 at 9:26:31 AM

Worry about everything, panic over nothing.

I kept forgetting to post that yesterday. The most interesting thing to me is that they've given Mnuchin and the IRS guy - who incidentally worked on Trump's taxes before Trump nominated him to head the IRS - till next Friday to comply or face legal actions.

The most obvious explanation is the halfhearted hope they'll actually comply, but I can't help but wonder if that's the date the House will take action against everyone who has refused to follow their subpoenas.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280331: May 11th 2019 at 9:35:41 AM

Worry about everything, panic over nothing.

Frankly, that sounds really emotionally draining and is just as liable to produce apathy as it would produce vigilance.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 11th 2019 at 9:36:26 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280333: May 11th 2019 at 9:53:08 AM

I'm all for constant vigilance, I just think worrying about everything isn't the best way to get it tongue

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280334: May 11th 2019 at 10:02:12 AM

Panic is emotionally draining. Worrying just means you're paying concerned attention.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#280335: May 11th 2019 at 10:02:55 AM

Yeah that feels more like eternal paranoia and there are many other paths to that.

OTOH it does make me wonder how thick the line between vigilance and paranoia is. But that might be a topic for another day.

A topic for today though is that Trump is (like the narcissist he usually is) worrying about his image specifically one as a master negotiator.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#280336: May 11th 2019 at 10:07:32 AM

On top of that, Eric Holder was deemed to be in Contempt of Congress over the refusal to turn over 1,300 pages relating to Operation Fast & Furious, and he wasn't arrested.

He should have been. Someone at some point probably should make the point to Holder and Obama that they set the groundwork for what Barr is doing, that Holder’s criminal behaviour has enabled Barr to commit the same crime and hope to get away with it, exactly the same way Holder got away with it.

Democrats should never had let Holder get away with his criminal behaviour, because this is where that leads, this is where we end up when we allow our own people to commit crimes and suffer no real punishment.

Edited by Silasw on May 11th 2019 at 5:09:22 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280337: May 11th 2019 at 10:24:17 AM

Democrats should never had let Holder get away with his criminal behaviour, because this is where that leads, this is where we end up when we allow our own people to commit crimes and suffer no real punishment.

We have yet to establish that hefty daily fines are not actually a non-punishment, perhaps you should wait for that to actually be proven to true before decrying it?

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280338: May 11th 2019 at 10:27:29 AM

Might be worth noting that during the vote of Contempt against Holder, Pelosi and most of the Democrats walked out in protest of the vote.

Did the House even try to arrest or fine Holder?

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280339: May 11th 2019 at 10:46:20 AM

A topic for today though is that Trump is (like the narcissist he usually is) worrying about his image specifically one as a master negotiator.

That ship's current state. People who like him don't care, people who hate him already think he's scum.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#280340: May 11th 2019 at 11:09:58 AM

I want to bring up a couple of things regarding this Variety article on the Electronic Software Association, especially on its former president Mike Gallagher:

Gallagher’s hiring came at a time when the video game industry was still looked down upon by many inside the D.C. beltway, and violence in video games was typically the only reason politicians discussed the game industry. It was also at a time when the impact of the K Street Project — an effort by the Republican Party to pressure lobbying firms to hire Republicans to executive positions — still loomed large.

Gallagher, the former assistant secretary of commerce for communication and chief telecommunications and policy adviser to the Bush administration, came to the industry with strong Republican ties, conservative views and a solid pitch to the association’s board of directors, which is comprised of executives from some of the biggest entertainment companies in the world.

But it became apparent early on that Gallagher’s approach to leadership and his personal politics weren’t a natural match for the long-term employees of the association and, increasingly, the video game industry at large.

While Gallagher’s heavy hand with association employees was well known in some circles of the video game industry, it didn’t seem to hurt his standing with the board.

That may have been because of the ESA’s handling of the 2011 U.S. Supreme Court case, which ultimately ruled in favor of the video game industry — noting video games are both a form of protected speech and a form of art. The decision bought Gallagher a lot of goodwill in the game industry and in particular among some of the association’s board members.

Some members of the board even pitched in to buy Gallagher a watch valued at more than $10,000 to thank him for his service. A mix of issues, however, then started to erode Gallagher’s and the ESA’s standing in the industry.

In the past, when Gallagher would suggest something that other ESA employees thought might be off-putting to the game industry at large, they were able to guide him away from potential landmines.

But it appears he began to push even further into his conservative views. He was, one source told Variety, a big fan of Trump’s — stocking his office with Trump wine and proudly displaying a copy of Trump’s boxed game in his office. This was something that some office visitors (often members of the typically left-leaning video game industry) found worrisome, sources said. To make matters worse, Gallagher started pushing for the ESA to publicly support Trump-backed policies when possible, a shift in behavior compared to his arms-length approach to the Obama administration.

For instance, in November 2017 the ESA announced its support of the Republican-led tax reform proposal, a move that angered many in the game industry and, according to sources, cost the ESA some potential members.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#280341: May 11th 2019 at 11:42:33 AM

Montana governor Steve Bullock teasing a big announcement. These doomed presidential campaigns throwing away plenty of winnable Senate seats are killing me. Please get on it Schumer, the Senate is crucial for getting cabinet appointments approved.

Edited by Grafite on May 12th 2019 at 4:59:12 PM

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280342: May 11th 2019 at 11:44:01 AM

Former Montana governor Steve Bullock teasing a big announcement. These doomed campaigns throwing away plenty of winnable senate seats are killing me. Please get on it Schumer, because these candidates seem to not realize the senate is needed for cabinet appointments.

I question how much Schumer can actually do, these people are knowingly choosing to put their personal ambition over the needs of the party in the Senate. It's not like they're ignorant of how it functions.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280343: May 11th 2019 at 11:45:39 AM

Unfortunately, contrary to what the DNC's detractors claim, the DNC does not actually have any power to stop people from running like this.

As much as we don't want these people running <looks at Biden>, there's no real way to make them stop.

Edited by M84 on May 12th 2019 at 2:46:20 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280344: May 11th 2019 at 11:46:56 AM

If their hearts aren't into running for the senate, I don't think coaxing them to run a halfhearteded campaign would do much good anyway.

Edited by Parable on May 11th 2019 at 11:47:27 AM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280345: May 11th 2019 at 12:11:01 PM

They don't like it in the Senate? Fine. Primary them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280346: May 11th 2019 at 12:12:45 PM

It's a shark frenzy. With a historically unpopular incumbent, the water's drenched in the smell of blood.

Everyone with even half an ambition to their name is thinking this is their time. That if they can just snatch that nomination, the general election's in the bag.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#280347: May 11th 2019 at 12:12:49 PM

Easier said then done,they enjoy a lot support and them being premiered is wishful thinking at best

[up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on May 11th 2019 at 7:13:07 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#280348: May 11th 2019 at 12:17:08 PM

Also probably at least half of these people are likely planning to fail. They can write books about the experience and put "former Presidential hopeful" on their political resume.

Every election has a share of those. In fact, one of them is sitting in the White House right now.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#280349: May 11th 2019 at 12:18:29 PM

Far from me to assume that AOC's story would be the norm.

But one thing we've been shown is that candidates that think they have a lot of support, sometimes don't.

Edited by Oruka on May 11th 2019 at 12:18:45 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#280350: May 11th 2019 at 12:19:04 PM

The most I can say for Bullock is that he compares favorably to a lot of the other white man candidates, unlike O'Rourke he has a decent amount of experience and he doesn't have Biden's terrible history. His voting record seems decent enough from the little I looked into it.

He wouldn't be my first choice obviously but he's far from being the worst.


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