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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
If this is discovery theatre then I’ll withdraw by objection, but I’m not convinced yet.
That or if Barr refuses does he have a residence in D.C.? Could they send the sergeant at arm in debt collector style to take Barr’s stuff?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWhat Reuters thinks of the whole fine thing.
Expanding on an idea floated days ago by Democrats as a way of putting some teeth into various inquiries of Trump, his turbulent presidency, his family and his business interests, Representative Adam Schiff spoke in two interviews about reviving the “inherent contempt” power of Congress.
“We would levy fines on those who are not cooperating,” Schiff, the chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee told Axios in an interview published on Friday.
“You could fine someone $25,000 a day until they comply. You can do that. We’re looking through the history and studying the law to make sure we’re on solid ground,” Schiff said.
Democrats who control the House have confronted the Republican president and his administration for refusing to cooperate with at least six separate investigations. Republicans have accused Democrats of grandstanding for progressive voters, but even the Republican-controlled Senate Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed the president’s son, Donald Trump Jr.
Congress can subpoena testimony and documents, then enforce these formal requests by holding recalcitrant subpoena targets in contempt of Congress. At that point, legal options are less clear cut.
Congress can ask federal prosecutors to take the matter to court, but legal experts have questioned the effectiveness of this option since prosecutors work for the Justice Department whose top official is appointed by Trump.
Congress can go to court itself and ask a judge to step in, but this can be time consuming. Finally, opening an impeachment proceeding adds force to congressional inquiries, but Democratic leaders have been reluctant to take this rare step.
Democrats instead are exploring inherent contempt, a dormant, extrajudicial power to arrest, detain and fine that Congress has not used since the 1930s.
Schiff talked about reviving inherent contempt and imposing fines on The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC on Thursday. He said such a step by Congress “may be even quicker than the impeachment proceeding or the court proceeding.”
U.S. Attorney General William Barr, a Trump appointee, has been cited for contempt by the House Judiciary Committee for refusing to hand over an unredacted copy of the Mueller report on Russian election interference and any ties to the 2016 Trump campaign. The administration invoked executive privilege to keep the full Congress from seeing the report.
House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler raised inherent contempt as a possibility last week.
Under inherent contempt, the House sergeant-at-arms can arrest and detain people. Democratic leaders have said they have no plans to revive that power. FILE PHOTO: The U.S. Attorney General and heads of the U.S. congressional committees pursuing investigations focusing on President Donald Trump are seen in a combination of file photos (L-R clockwise): U.S. Attorney General William Barr, House Oversight and Reform Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings, House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, House Financial Services Committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff. REUTERS/File Photos/File Photo
“It used to be we imprisoned people,” Schiff said on MSNBC. “But we could also fine them $25,000 a day until they comply, or some other number.”
Exactly how that would work is uncertain. Some legal experts have said fines could be imposed, but that it might require passage of enabling legislation by Congress.
Trump has openly vowed to fight congressional subpoenas and directed top officials not to comply. On Friday, Nadler said his panel had again issued a subpoena to former White House counsel Don Mc Gahn and that lawmakers expect him to appear May 21 or face being cited for contempt, according to Fox News.
So...if its fine that Barr gets to go free with a fine after violating a subpoena, can we then agree that its a double standard to then claim that Manning needs to be in jail?
Also, 25k a day is a pretty small amount, from what I can tell with a brief check is that Barr has millions. It would take a while before making him have to do anything.
When we're dealing with the amounts of money that factor in here, 25k is a slap on the wrist.
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerDoubly so if the statues limit it to 100K.
But it is weird hearing people defend the Democratic choice here while also claiming, "The law is the law" with Manning.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 10th 2019 at 5:20:25 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.That's.... a good question.
To add on to it, I think it'd be good to have a source for the $100K claim. Because I don't think I've seen anyone post one yet.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI think the problem people are having is that Barr is apparently so rich that spending 25 and eventually 100K a day amounts to the opposite of a Felony Misdemeanor. The thing is, even if he is that rich, 1) how do we confirm that, and 2) isn't having to spend money on anything but lobbying like walking on hot coals for people like him? If this pans out, Barr's presumed greed will make him crack sooner or later.
i'm tired, my friendLike, even assuming this doesn't matter to him, I'm wondering what happens afterwards.
It feels like a lot of you are just going "Okay, so this amounts to nothing, he still doesn't answer the subpoena and provide the information, and that's it." and I don't think I'm ready just yet to assume that's how things go.
The bigger issue boils down to the fact the House can arrest Barr with inherent contempt but the fine issue is another question and whether it can be enforced.
And whether Congress fining him could be challenged in court.
Which inherent contempt arrests can't.
Teapot Dome gave us a legal precedent for a lot of the charges but not fines.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 10th 2019 at 6:28:05 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I think that if Barr’s punishment is capped at daily fines and no jail time then it’s raw hypocrisy to not cap Manning’s punishment at the same. I think that she and her supporters would prefer fines to jail time.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI also agree with Manning's treatment becoming hypocritical.
I, personally, have no problem with Manning being arrested for Contempt of Congress. I also believe Barr should be arrested for Contempt of Congress. If you refuse a Congressional subpoena, you should be arrested. Don't matter who you are.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Ugh, apparently Mueller's scheduled testimony has been disrupted
because of the Contempt charge against Barr. Whether it was Mueller himself that took umbrage or the DoJ running interference is unclear from the article, but to say it's frustrating would be a hell of an understatement.
The same article mentions that the House vote on the Contempt charge may be delayed - not for political reasons, but so that it can be bundled with other Contempt citations levied against other Administration officials.
Edited by ironballs16 on May 11th 2019 at 9:31:31 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Like I said, they're making a list.
That's probably why they're also considering fines — they're facing the realization that they may end up charging maybe half of the fucking WH with contempt.
It'd be quite a sight if more WH staff were in prison than in the actual WH.
Edited by M84 on May 11th 2019 at 9:41:38 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedSure the contempt is against a different institution but I don’t see a meaningful difference, contempt of court and contempt of Congress are equally serious and basically the same crime.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe point seems to be that it's up to the institution to determine what the punishment for contempt should be.
It'd be a straight up Double Standard if Manning were charged with contempt of Congress too and got jail time from them instead of a fine (assuming they ultimately go with the fine for Barr)...but that's not the case here.
Edited by M84 on May 11th 2019 at 10:21:01 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedCongress wrote the law on contempt of court, if they honestly think that contempt isn’t a crime that merits jail time then they can pass (or attempt to pass) a law limiting the punishment for contempt of court to fines.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Come to think of it, where is the Mueller Report right now? Like, physically where is it? I keep thinking what might happen if an employee at whatever building it's being held in just decided to leak it to the public, possibly out of frustration.
The GOP would obviously doubt its authenticity, but let's face it, if it gets released legitimately they'd doubt its authenticity anyway.
Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 10th 2019 at 11:12:46 AM
Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!