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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280176: May 9th 2019 at 5:49:15 PM

Gonna have to explain that one Chief.

Subpoenas aren't something people get to ignore just because they feel it's unjustified.

You don't see anything wrong with re-isssuing a subpoena to someone the moment they're out of prison? Something they know will land her back in prison?

What could they want her for that they'd need to lock her up again the moment she leaves? It seems far more likely they're just trying to keep her in jail as long as possible.

I don't think so, presumably, the reason they wanted to subpoena her originally has not disappeared.

If I want to insist that Trump Jr or Barr must obey their subpoenas then it would be rather hypocritical of me to give Manning a pass.

She has suffered terribly and I feel for her, but in this case, she's in the wrong.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280177: May 9th 2019 at 5:52:12 PM

I think her requests were perfectly reasonable and the supeona should be withdrawn or modified.

Basically, given her previous treatment by the government, she has every reason to be suspicious of inhuman and illegal treatment.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 9th 2019 at 5:53:37 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280178: May 9th 2019 at 5:55:21 PM

My understanding was Trump became a Spanner in the Works by promising not just repeal the ACA, but replace it with something better, which the Republicans were fundamentally incapable of doing while pleasing their base. Everything they came up with was judged to end to becoming not expensive than the current ACA while providing far less, prompting just enough Republicans to vote against it in the Senate.

The goal of ACA's repeal is to remove giving money to the poor and make them more dependent on the expensive medical establishment or to flat out die quicker.

Trump promised a much better more comprehensive system.

Which....flat out left the Republicans in a confusing place. It didn't help that the people who use the ACA include a vast number of Republican voters who have relatives who aren't dead because of it. Indeed, Republican states are the number 1% users of ACA because there's no other recompense for their situation.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#280179: May 9th 2019 at 5:56:06 PM

There’s nothing inhumane about a closed door court hearing.

Her jail conditions probably were inhumane, but that doesn’t make the subpoena inhumane.

And as with Barr, just because a person doesn’t like the conditions under which they will be questioned (in a closed door session or by staff lawyers) doesn’t mean they get to refuse to turn up.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#280180: May 9th 2019 at 5:56:39 PM

Basically, given her previous treatment by the government, she has every reason to be suspicious of inhuman and illegal treatment.

Subpoenas are not illegal.

Nor are they inhuman if you follow them.

It's understandable that she'd be suspicious of the government but if that were reason enough to give law-breaking behavior a pass then a large number of shitty far-right assholes would benefit. If she wants to protest a law she perceives to be unjust that's fine but she had better be willing to face the consequences.

Acting as if moral rightness should be enough to break the law without consequence is a sentiment that is deeply damaging to our society.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 9th 2019 at 5:57:38 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#280181: May 9th 2019 at 6:16:08 PM

Looks like the tariff war with China is coming back again.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280182: May 9th 2019 at 6:20:03 PM

[up]Good.

China's current regime is founded on an invincible leader and the one thing against him is Trump refusing to play ball.

Now excuse me, I have to go throw up.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#280183: May 9th 2019 at 6:20:24 PM

This isn't justice, its punitive revenge.

Seriously!? A totally unrelated grand jury just so happens to subpoena her the moment she's a free woman again!?

Also, as the article points out, she has not been accused of anything illegal that she hasn't already served time for. They're just calling her back in to a process she feels (and I'm inclined to agree) is unjust for testimony they already have, so they can keep sending her to prison over and over again.

With Barr - its clear Barr is trying to obstruct justice. There is nothing Chelsea has done, on the other hand, to warrant this treatment. Its just revenge, and I don't feel its hypocritical to want Barr to face justice and recognize that Manning is being targeted unfairly.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280184: May 9th 2019 at 6:26:55 PM

[up][up]Are you in support of a trade war?

If it keeps going on or gets worse, that will have a negative effect on the global economy. Which means more people are going to lose money and jobs. Which for a lot of people will mean death.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280185: May 9th 2019 at 6:27:58 PM

[up]I am fully for sanctions against China for their horrific human rights record and the use of concentration camps.

Trump will not condemn China for their evil actions but this functionally serves the same purpose.

The more successful and rich China's government is, the more horrific the atrocities they will commit against their public will be. You'd think it wouldn't be the case but their current dictator has radicalized the country and depends on its continuing success to spread his tyranny (as he's trying to do in Africa).

I also support the sanctions on Putin and think they're the only reason he hasn't invaded Estonia and other Eastern European Nations.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 9th 2019 at 6:29:05 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280186: May 9th 2019 at 6:28:38 PM

[up]These aren't sanctions. Those are completely different from trade war. It'd be one thing if sanctions were placed on members of the CCP or something.

All wars have innocent bystander casualties. Trade wars are no exception here.

This is a glorified game of chicken between two authoritarian assholes, and the entire global economy is being dragged towards the cliff with them.

Edited by M84 on May 9th 2019 at 9:30:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280187: May 9th 2019 at 6:29:20 PM

Trade wars hurt us more than they hurt China.

There are other and far more effective methods of economic warfare if we want to fight them.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280188: May 9th 2019 at 6:29:54 PM

Yes.

But they have weakened Xi Jinping and prevented him from several horrific policies in Africa.

Trade wars hurt us more than they hurt China.

There are other and far more effective methods of economic warfare if we want to fight them.

Are they going to happen any time soon?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 9th 2019 at 6:30:33 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280189: May 9th 2019 at 6:32:36 PM

No but I'm not really interested in burning down the neighborhood in a hope that Pooh Bear in the next development over breathes some of it in.

That's gonna be a little counterproductive to our efforts if we wanna really put the screws in to him later.

Edited by LeGarcon on May 9th 2019 at 9:34:24 AM

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280190: May 9th 2019 at 6:35:31 PM

The trade war is one of the many reasons Trump is an awful president. It's fucking madness.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280191: May 9th 2019 at 6:39:36 PM

Taking money from a regime with concentration camps is monstrous. That's just how I feel. We need to start weening ourselves off from China and to other countries just like the Confederacy and cotton was by Britain.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#280192: May 9th 2019 at 6:44:45 PM

I don't disagree but I'd rather do something substantive and some actual damage than a token gesture that'll damage us and our ability to actually hurt the Chinese government more than it'll hurt them.

Oh really when?
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280193: May 9th 2019 at 6:45:02 PM

But I thought the whole thing with the trade war was we weren't giving them our money...?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280194: May 9th 2019 at 6:45:04 PM

NVM

Edited by M84 on May 9th 2019 at 9:45:23 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#280195: May 9th 2019 at 6:48:35 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/05/09/day-840/

    Day 840: No choice 
1/ Mick Mulvaney criticized Republicans for not informing him that Trump Jr. would be subpoenaed by the Senate Intelligence Committee as part of its ongoing probe into Russian interference in the 2016 campaign. The acting White House chief of staff called it "bad form" to "not at least get a heads-up" from the Republican-led committee. Senator Richard Blumenthal said that "If [Trump Jr.] fails to comply with a lawful subpoena, he has no privilege, prison is the only answer." Trump Jr. is expected to assert his Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination in order to resist testifying about his contacts with Russia. (Washington Post / Politico / CNN / The Hill / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-junior-surprise-idUSKCN1SF22Q

📌 Day 839: The Senate Intelligence Committee subpoenaed Trump Jr. to answer questions about his previous testimony related to the Russia investigation. Trump Jr. testified before the committee in September 2017 that he was only "peripherally aware" of the proposed plans to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. Michael Cohen, however, told a House committee earlier this year that he had met with both Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump "approximately 10" times to brief them about the Trump Tower plan. The Republican-led committee wants Trump Jr. to answer questions about his claim to have limited knowledge of the plan. (Axios / CNBC / New York Times)

https://www.axios.com/senate-intelligence-committee-donald-trump-jr-subpoena-russia-9c9ed1e6-63e4-4796-91c4-a20082e991d2.html

2/ House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff issued a subpoena to the Justice Department for "counterintelligence and foreign intelligence" from Robert Mueller's investigation. Schiff said his committee had "no choice" but to serve the subpoena after the Justice Department "repeatedly failed to respond, refused to schedule any testimony, and provided no documents responsive to our legitimate and duly authorized oversight activities." Schiff gave Attorney General William Barr a deadline of May 15 to hand over the evidence. (Politico / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/politics/adam-schiff-house-intelligence-mueller/index.html

3/ House Speaker Nancy Pelosi agreed with Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler that the U.S. is in a "constitutional crisis" over the Trump administration's refusal to comply with congressional oversight, telling reporters: "The administration has decided they are not going to honor their oath of office." The House Judiciary Committee voted yesterday to recommend the House hold Barr in contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over an unredacted version of Mueller's report. Pelosi said she would bring the contempt citation to the floor for a vote of the full House "when we are ready." (New York Times / Axios)

https://www.axios.com/pelosi-constitutional-crisis-trump-mueller-report-04c09200-17c2-441f-93bc-ee5ad52b53c5.html

Former national security adviser H.R. Mc Master accused his former White House colleagues of being "a danger to the Constitution" because they're either trying to push their own agenda or see themselves as rescuing the country from Trump. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/08/mcmaster-white-house-danger-to-the-constitution-1418268

poll/ 45% of Americans support impeaching Trump – up 5 percentage points since mid-April. 42% said Trump should not be impeached and the rest said they had no opinion. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-poll-idUSKCN1SF2D9

    Notables 
The White House implemented new rules that could reduce the number of journalists that hold "hard" passes, which allow them to enter the White House grounds without seeking daily permission. Journalists will be required to enter the White House grounds at least 50% of the time in the 180 days before renewal. If they fall short of this, they must apply each time they want access. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/white-house-imposes-new-rules-on-reporters-credentials-raising-concerns-about-access/2019/05/08/793dc404-71dd-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

North Korea fired two short-range missiles – the second weapons launch in five days. They flew 43 to 125 miles before landing in the sea. (Associated Press / New York Times)

https://apnews.com/a5fc6c7710604d11925251b5e5827bf6

The U.S. seized a North Korean ship used to sell coal in violation of American law and international sanctions hours after North Korea launched a pair of short-range missiles. (New York Times / Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-seizes-north-korean-coal-ship-accuses-pyongyang-of-violating-sanctions/2019/05/09/8fc50d86-726e-11e9-8be0-ca575670e91c_story.html

Trump picked acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan to take over as secretary of defense following the resignation of Jim Mattis. The nomination of the former longtime executive at Boeing had been held up by an inspector general's probe into whether he acted improperly in favor of Boeing, a major Pentagon contractor. He was recently cleared of wrongdoing, but still needs Senate confirmation. (CNBC / Politico / Bloomberg / NBC News / Washington Post)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/09/trump-picks-ex-boeing-exec-patrick-shanahan-to-be-secretary-of-defense.html

Trump joked about shooting migrants at the border during a rally in Florida. Trump was complaining that "border security people" are prohibited from shooting migrants approaching the border when he asked, "How do you stop these people?" One of his supporters shouted: "Shoot them!" Trump paused, laughed, and responded that "Only in the Panhandle you can get away with that statement. Only in the panhandle." (USA Today / Washington Post / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/09/politics/donald-trump-rally-shoot-migrants/index.html

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#280196: May 9th 2019 at 6:49:46 PM

Maybe, maybe (unlikely), a trade war would work if Trump focused down China. Except he's also waging one on the Eu, Canada, Mexico, etc.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#280197: May 9th 2019 at 6:51:48 PM

Yeah, you shouldn't root for the bully in the sandbox who is kicking sand in every other kid's face just because he happens to also kick sand in the face of a kid you hate.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#280198: May 9th 2019 at 6:53:20 PM

NPR brought something in their 2020 coverage I found interesting.

In South Carolina, Biden is campaigning hard on his relationship with Obama to court the black primary voters who make up most of the state's delegates. While that's natural, what they considered odd was that most the other candidates haven't really brought up their relationships with Obama, specifically citing Warren and Harris as people who worked closely with him and could really benefit from the association.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#280199: May 9th 2019 at 6:54:42 PM

I am looking forward to Trump throwing his family (or, more significantly, one of his proxies for his businesses) under the bus. It looks like it would be easier for Trump to do than try to save his son’s skin, so I think that’d be the most in-character course of action for him.

My musician page
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#280200: May 9th 2019 at 6:56:23 PM

I think most of the candidates think Obama will probably endorse Biden. When that happens, that will be a pretty big embarrassment for those who would cite him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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