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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#279901: May 7th 2019 at 3:31:06 PM

[up]

The Justice Department offered on Tuesday to allow more congressional staffers access to a less-redacted version of special counsel Robert Mueller’s report — an attempt to head off a Wednesday vote to hold Attorney General William Barr in contempt of Congress for defying a Democratic subpoena for Mueller’s entire findings and evidence.

The concessions also included allowing a select number of senior lawmakers — just 12 have been allowed access to the less-redacted version — to keep their handwritten notes on the report. But importantly, the offer does not include allowing additional lawmakers to view the document, and those who can would still be forbidden from discussing it or sharing their notes with colleagues — leaving a key demand from Democrats unresolved.

According to two sources familiar with Tuesday’s negotiating session, the Justice Department offered to allow each of the lawmakers to bring two staffers — instead of just one — to view the less-redacted version. Initially, the department said it would only allow the top Republicans and Democrats on the House and Senate Judiciary and Intelligence committees, in addition to bipartisan House and Senate leaders, to view the less-redacted version. The Justice Department also intends to continue shielding grand-jury information. Democrats have urged Barr to join them in seeking a court order to release that information.

It was not immediately clear whether those concessions allowing greater access to the less-redacted report were enough to convince House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) to scrap the contempt vote, which was teed up after Barr signaled he would defy the panel’s subpoena for full, unredacted report and the underlying evidence. Nadler declined to comment.

I hope the answer is obvious. Congress is a Coequal Branch of government, so act like it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#279902: May 7th 2019 at 3:32:44 PM

"But importantly, the offer does not include allowing additional lawmakers to view the document, and those who can would still be forbidden from discussing it or sharing their notes with colleagues — leaving a key demand from Democrats unresolved."

They won't accept this deal because bullshit,they'll refuse until they can view of all of it,unredacted

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#279903: May 7th 2019 at 3:37:30 PM

[up] This. Nadler needs to stick to his guns and say "We demanded X, we won't accept Y, give us X or you're under arrest." But it does show that Barr, and possibly Trump, are actually worried they might've pushed too hard in obstructing the House at every turn (otherwise they wouldn't have even offered this 'compromise').

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279904: May 7th 2019 at 3:39:05 PM

[up]Which is why we need to keep pushing back or else they'll think all it will take is some empty platitudes to keep us in line.

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#279905: May 7th 2019 at 3:43:48 PM

Another shooting has just gone down at STEM School Highlands Ranch in Denver, Colorado. At least 7 injured, 2 suspects in custody.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/us/colorado-denver-area-school-shooting/index.html

Edited by danime91 on May 7th 2019 at 3:45:57 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279906: May 7th 2019 at 4:09:00 PM

The New York Times got ahold of some of Trump's 'tax numbers' which showed

"that during a tumultuous decade of fevered acquisition and spectacular collapse, Mr. Trump’s core businesses — largely casinos, hotels and retail space in apartment buildings — ran up $1.17 billion in losses."

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279907: May 7th 2019 at 4:18:11 PM

Huh. Imagine if Trump's taxes don't contain evidence of any crimes (hard to, I know, but bear with me), and he just wants to hide the details of his old business failings.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#279908: May 7th 2019 at 4:19:02 PM

heh,his wounded pride and shame would be worth it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279909: May 7th 2019 at 4:42:20 PM

That's been my expectation for two years.

I've never been convinced that Trump's hiding crimes in his tax returns. Trump's done a f*ckton of crimes, mind you. I just don't think his tax returns have some secret to cracking all the wrongdoing he's done.

Trump's extremely insecure about his wealth. He's also a con man who literally got his start by pretending to be wealthier than he actually was so he could get loans. I've always been under the impression that what he's hiding in his tax returns is simply the fact that he's not worth as much money as he likes to say he is.

Trump would fight tooth and nail to avoid even minor embarrassment. His whole reason for his Presidency is retribution against Obama for making fun of him. He is extremely petty. So there's no question in my mind that he would fight exactly as hard as he's fighting now to avoid the headline, "Donald Trump: Not Actually a Billionaire".

My worry for a long time now has been that the tax returns are another false lead. We'll finally get them and it won't actually change anything, and then FOX News will spend the next two months ranting about us invading Trump's privacy or some shit.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 5:43:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279910: May 7th 2019 at 4:45:12 PM

Apparently; nothing pisses off Trump off like calling him a Millionaire.

Update on the Denver shooting; 8 students were wounded (some critically), and two suspects are in custody.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/us/colorado-denver-area-school-shooting/index.html

Edited by Rationalinsanity on May 7th 2019 at 8:59:45 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279911: May 7th 2019 at 5:02:57 PM

Speaking as someone whose family used to be represent the super-rich in Kentucky and one failed business deal w/ Trump, the secret to Donald Trump's finances aren't really that secret.

1. Trump has been in debt since the very beginning of his career and while his father was a racist asshole, at least he actually knew how to keep businesses afloat. Trump claimed his father's fortune as his own to get listed in FORBES as one of the world's richest men. However, when he actually inherited the 200 million dollars of his father's assets, they were used to prop up his other businesses.

2. Trump is spectacularly bad at his business dealings. No surpise there. Ranging from the Taj Mahal Casino (where his partners mysteriously died), large real estate development in New York City where Giluliani worked with him to drive out all the poor people before overcharging for property, and exploiting whatever loopholes he can. Generally, Trump refused to pay workers and eventually settled lawsuits for less money and constantly cut corners. Bribery was a causal thing and very often he stiffed his partners for bills.

3. Trump spent years marketing himself as a billionaire self-made man (when he's the opposite) for other reasons than just his own ego. Trump's name is the only asset of his that is actually worth anything as in order to pay the immense amount of debt that he's incrued's INTEREST he is in constant need of cash.

4. Trump has innumerable criminal ties in foreign countries like Azerbaijan (sp) and Saudi Arabia and (of course) Russia. Basically, Trump has long used his name for money laundering purposes. The dictators of Azerbaijan or Russian oligarchs or whoever want to build in Mexico but have difficulty getting permits because criminals.

But they're perfectly fine selling TRUMP brand hotels and real estate that he otherwise hasn't any connection to. Trump doesn't even invest in these places but just licenses his name for large lump sums that are long term inferior business-wise but gives him cash infusions he uses to pay the interest on his work.

5. It's why Trump's name is on so many shitty D-level products because he's created the allure of a billionaire while always being a Mcdonalds-level affair. The Apprentice famously had to build the sets for The Apprentice and offices because they were such trashy and shitty looking places in real life run by the Trump family itself because they only trusted the family to handle all of the shady deals.

6. There were a lot of suspciiously high-level overpriced sales from Trump to Russia in the buildup to the election that may have bailed Trump out of general bankruptcy. Overpaying for buildings and estates by forty million dollars or more each sale.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279912: May 7th 2019 at 6:10:22 PM

Nadler is unimpressed with DOJ’s deal. The contempt vote is going ahead as scheduled.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279913: May 7th 2019 at 6:22:43 PM

Heh. Thus vindicating what I was saying yesterday- this is following the same pattern as the shutdown. Trumps throws a tantrum and refuses to acknowledge that congress has power, congress reminds him that it does, everyone (including Trump) thinks they're bluffing and will fold when push comes to shove, but then they don't and Trump folds first, offering a deal that, since it offers less than just holding out for another day or two would get them, is obviously rejected.

And, like, surely if they were going to chicken out, it would've been in the form of accepting that deal. There'd be no point in rejecting it if they weren't willing to charge Barr with contempt.

Edited by Gilphon on May 7th 2019 at 9:26:06 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#279914: May 7th 2019 at 6:24:59 PM

I, for one, am glad to be proven wrong.

I'll hold on the fireworks until tomorrow, though.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#279915: May 7th 2019 at 6:40:07 PM

If Barr gets arrested, what happens next?

Do not obey in advance.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#279916: May 7th 2019 at 6:43:16 PM

I presume he gets fired (can't really do your job behind bars) and replaced (Preferably by the House).

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279917: May 7th 2019 at 6:45:00 PM

[up]Depends on how long he gets sentenced. If it's only for a month, he could have Rosenstein or his replacement become the acting AG until his release.

And unless Barr surrenders himself, it might take a few days to put him in the slammer.

Trump may also try to pardon him. Nevermind that due to Barr's position and/or the natuer of the crime he's unable to do that. Not that he cares.

Edited by kkhohoho on May 7th 2019 at 8:48:37 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#279918: May 7th 2019 at 6:48:15 PM

[up]x2 Trump will only fire him as a last resort. I imagine Barr will be AG-in-name-only behind bars, and either the Deputy AG or an acting AG will simply keep doing whatever Trump wants. We might see a never ending conga line of arrests and imprisonments until either Nadler or the 'Attorney General' cave in and give the other side what they want.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on May 7th 2019 at 9:48:48 AM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279919: May 7th 2019 at 6:50:54 PM

I mean, I certainly don't think the House would get to choose his replacement. I'm pretty sure that's just not how that works.

But I'd also guess that his replacement would be a bit less willing to get arrested.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279920: May 7th 2019 at 6:58:24 PM

Evil Santa is right. The House gets no say in Cabinet secretaries. Either the Deputy AG takes over or Trump appoints an Acting AG. What happens after that only time could tell.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279921: May 7th 2019 at 7:27:14 PM

The important thing is to keep arresting Trump cronies until they stop being willing to break the law for him.

If Trump appoints a new AG and that new AG refuses to acquiesce to a subpoena for the unredacted Mueller report, he gets arrested.

If Trump then appoints a new AG and that new AG refuses to acquiesce to a subpoena for the unredacted Mueller report, he gets arrested.

Rinse and repeat until Trump appoints an AG who goes, "Yeah, here you go, please don't put handcuffs on me."

There's a limit to how many people will willingly go to jail for Trump on this. That limit is probably one. I would not be surprised to see Barr's arrest have a "Hahaha wait. Oh, shit, you're serious," domino effect among his cronies.

The Executive is flexing its muscles because it thinks the House has no power here. Once we've bloodied its nose, we may start seeing people change their tune. In the presence of a bloody nose, nobody wants to become the black eye.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 8:28:04 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279922: May 7th 2019 at 7:50:26 PM

Does a Contempt finding count as an official mark on your criminal record of sorts? Like a felony or misdemeanor?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279923: May 7th 2019 at 7:54:51 PM

I don't know.

Not sure if it matters. Nobody in the Executive branch will ever have to formally apply for a job or do anything that might be adversely affected by a criminal black mark anyway.

Criminal records are for the poor.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 8:55:06 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#279924: May 7th 2019 at 7:58:04 PM

Criminal records are for the poor.

Sad but true.

Do not obey in advance.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279925: May 7th 2019 at 7:58:41 PM

Again, none of this is new territory as Watergate had numerous criminal indictments.

And yes, all of the people arrested (including two Attorney Generals) had their careers destroyed and criminal records.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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