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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#279851: May 7th 2019 at 11:47:32 AM

Fun fact: Another word for Police officer is in Germany "Schutzmann" which translates literally to "protection man" and the police is supposed to be your "Friend and helper"
I just want to point out the unintentional humor here, that I'm pretty sure it would be pronounced "Shoots-man" by Americans.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#279852: May 7th 2019 at 12:10:17 PM

On Pelosi, I've noticed a trend in which "not as left as I am/I would like" is equated with "not left at all".

That also happened a lot with Hillary, in which I saw people going "she's center-left so she's basically garbage".

It's really stupid, but there it is.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#279853: May 7th 2019 at 12:16:22 PM

The worst part with the McGahn situation is that, in the way they're asking him not to comply with Congress, they have at least a partial leg to stand on. In short, they're telling him to not release specific documents to the Congressional Committee, citing National Security, which isn't entirely the same as "You don't testify at all" which, to my knowledge, has not happened (yet).

Edited by ironballs16 on May 7th 2019 at 3:16:44 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#279854: May 7th 2019 at 12:37:27 PM

[up]Nope. Congress has listed the documents they wish to see, which were involved in the Mueller investigation.

They were deemed not privileged to get a judge to agree to the subpoena. Because McGahn was cleared by the White House to be investigated by Mueller with no restriction. A report of which (and evidence involved within) Congress has the right to see.

No. Leg.

Not even a toe.

Or a prosthetic.

The White House buggered themselves on this in 2017.

Edited by Euodiachloris on May 7th 2019 at 9:36:23 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#279855: May 7th 2019 at 1:08:35 PM

[up]

Ah, didn't realize that the Democrats had gotten a subpoena already issued. Naturally, we can expect to see that subpoena ruling get appealed.

And as for Pelosi, comments like these aren't exactly helping her image among the left.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi argued Tuesday that President Donald Trump is trying to provoke Democrats into proceeding with impeachment, using some of her strongest language yet on the issue.

"Trump is goading us to impeach him," she said at an event in New York City hosted by the Cornell University Institute of Politics and Global Affairs. "That's what he's doing. Every single day, he's just like taunting, taunting, taunting because he knows that it would be very divisive in the country, but he doesn't really care. He just wants to solidify his base." House Democratic leaders, including Pelosi, have worked to tamp down talk of impeachment for months. Pelosi has consistently emphasized that impeachment is extremely divisive, and in March she said Trump is "just not worth it."

As I mentioned yesterday - the Democrats (especially the "establishment" Democrats) are, quite understandably, nervous about actually impeaching Trump due to the potential political backlash. The problem being that Trump's antics - especially his utter contempt for the Checks & Balances vital to our Democracy - have gone far past political posturing, to the point that he needs to be impeached in order to establish firm precedent that this is the kind of shit we as a country won't stand for.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 7th 2019 at 4:14:56 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279856: May 7th 2019 at 1:14:22 PM

The problem after that being that if impeachment is tried and fails, it sets the precedent that we as a country will stand for that kind of shit.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#279857: May 7th 2019 at 1:15:13 PM

Pelosi is a tactician. It's exactly that ability which makes her so good in her current position. But I wouldn't want her to be as president for the same reason. You need people like her in the party though if you want to get anywhere.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279858: May 7th 2019 at 1:16:05 PM

But she's right, impeachment is too risky and all but guaranteed to fail due to Republican control of the Senate. Its handing Trump a win, and a massive one at that. Like, it would be his biggest win since the tax cut passing, if not bigger.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on May 7th 2019 at 5:22:55 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#279859: May 7th 2019 at 1:16:46 PM

[up]x4 We can't impeach him so long as Republicans have 1 Chamber of Congress, and they do. Impeaching him just for the impeachment to either fail, or never get started in the first place (and I wouldn't be surprised if McConnell simply ignored it) is moronic and stupid to do.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on May 7th 2019 at 4:17:05 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#279860: May 7th 2019 at 1:17:09 PM

Yep. Impeachment is insane while Republicans control the Senate.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#279861: May 7th 2019 at 1:20:21 PM

I think the issue comes down to whether you think it's more likely that impeachment fails and that makes it more likely people think Trump didn't actually do anything wrong, or if it stills fails but people blame the Republicans for obviously not responding to his blatant criminality.

Because at no point do I think anyone who has said they're for impeachment actually claimed they think he'll be found guilty.

Edited by LSBK on May 7th 2019 at 3:21:04 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279862: May 7th 2019 at 1:23:56 PM

Trusting the electorate to blame Republicans is unreliable at best.

Impeachment is a Death or Glory Attack, if it connects its great, but when it misses....

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#279863: May 7th 2019 at 1:27:07 PM

I am with Warren: It is simply what due process is, and the voters need to be able to trust that at least the Democrats will (largely) do things by the book, even if the Republicans don't. Doesn't mean that Pelosi is wrong about what Trump is doing.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279864: May 7th 2019 at 1:42:51 PM

If impeachment does happen, we're only getting one shot at it. I'd rather that one shot be something that actually had an effect rather than exactly the kind of toothless posturing the Democrats are already being accused of.

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/05/07/day-838/

    Day 838: Privilege. 
1/ The White House invoked executive privilege and ordered former counsel Donald Mc Gahn not to comply with a congressional subpoena for documents related to Robert Mueller's investigation. In a letter to the House Judiciary Committee, White House counsel Pat Cipollone argued that "Mc Gahn does not have the legal right to disclose these documents to third parties" and asked that the committee instead direct the request to the White House, "because they implicate significant Executive Branch confidentiality interests and executive privilege." Trump has also promised to assert executive privilege to block Mc Gahn's testimony to the committee later this month. Mc Gahn spent more than 30 hours speaking to Mueller's investigators, outlining two episodes where Trump asked him to have Mueller fired, and later asking Mc Gahn to deny news reports about that conversation. Mc Gahn rebuffed both requests. (CNBC / ABC News / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / New York Times)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/07/white-house-tells-don-mcgahn-not-to-give-mueller-documents-to-congress.html

📌 Day 819: After Trump fired James Comey, he attempted to have his White House counsel fire Mueller a month later. Trump twice told Donald Mc Gahn to call Rosenstein and order him to fire Mueller, saying: "Mueller has to go" for alleged "conflicts that precluded him from serving as special counsel." Mc Gahn refused, saying he did not want to repeat the "Saturday Night Massacre." Mc Gahn then called Reince Priebus, then the White House chief of staff, and told him Trump had asked him to "do crazy shit." Trump later pressured Mc Gahn to deny that he tried to fire Mueller.

📌 Day 820: Trump claimed that statements about him "by certain people" in Mueller's "crazy" report are "total bullshit," made by people trying to make themselves look good and harm him. Close White House advisers said Trump's rage was aimed at former White House counsel Don Mc Gahn, who blocked several attempts by Trump to interfere in Mueller's investigation. Trump continued tweeting: "This was an Illegally Started Hoax that never should have happened, a…" He never finish the statement. (Politico / Bloomberg / Washington Post / NBC News / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-statements-about-me-mueller-report-are-total-bull-t-n996296

2/ FBI Director Christopher Wray said he would not call the 2016 investigation into Trump's campaign advisers "spying." When asked during a Senate Appropriations subcommittee hearing if he had "any evidence that any illegal surveillance" into the Trump 2016 campaign occurred, Wray told lawmakers that "I don't think I personally have any evidence of that sort." Wray's comments are in contrast to those made by Attorney General William Barr at a Senate hearing on April 10th, where he claimed that "spying did occur, yes," calling it "a big deal." The Justice Department inspector general is expected to issue a report in the next month or two about the origins of the FBI investigation into the Trump campaign. Wray asked lawmakers to wait for the report. (Washington Post / NBC News / CNN)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/fbi-chief-wray-says-spying-didn-t-occur-trump-campaign-n1002806

📌 Day 811: Barr told Congress that the government was "spying" on Trump's campaign during the 2016 election, but provided no evidence. During a hearing before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Barr said that while he's not launching an investigation of the FBI or suggesting there is an "endemic" problem at the FBI, he does "think there was a failure among a group of leaders at the upper echelons." Barr went on to say that he wanted to understand if there was "unauthorized surveillance" of political figures and whether law enforcement officials had proper legal justification for the "genesis" of the counterintelligence investigation. (New York Times / Washington Post / Politico / NBC News / CNN / Bloomberg / Axios)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/barr-says-he-thinks-government-spied-trump-campaign-n992986

3/ Mitch Mc Connell called the investigations into Trump and his 2016 campaign "case closed," despite Trump repeatedly rebuffing Democrats' requests for documents and witnesses in their multiple investigations. Mc Connell accused Democrats of continuing to re-litigate the presidential election, calling it a "Groundhog Day spectacle." Charles Schumer called Mc Connell's speech "an astounding bit of whitewashing — not unexpected but entirely unconvincing." Mc Connell also tried to blame Obama for failing to warn Americans about Russia's election interference ahead of the 2016 election, mocking Democrats for "abruptly awakening to the dangers of Russian aggression." Mc Connell, however, scuttled Obama's plans in 2016 by "dramatically watered down" a bipartisan warning to states, citing "skepticism that the underlying intelligence truly supported the White House's claims" and his concerns Obama was playing partisan politics. (Washington Post / Vox)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/7/18535373/mcconnell-mueller-report-speech-obama-russian-interference

    Notables 
Trump pardoned a former U.S. soldier who was convicted of murdering an Iraqi prisoner. Former Army 1st Lt. Michael Behenna was convicted of unpremeditated murder in a combat zone and sentenced to 25 years in prison before his sentence was reduced to 15 years. He was paroled in 2014. Behenna admitted during his trial that instead of taking a prisoner home as ordered, Behenna took him to a railroad culvert, made him strip, questioned him at gunpoint, and then shot him because Behenna thought he might try to take his gun. Trump issued a full pardon and grant of clemency. (ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-grants-pardon-man-killed-iraqi-prisoner-62864825

China will not take part in three-way nuclear talks with the U.S. and Russia, according to a spokesperson for the Chinese government. Trump said on Friday that he had spoken with Putin and the Chinese government about a possible three-way deal. The Chinese government, however, publicly denied that it was interested in any such deal. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/asia/us-china-russia-nuclear-deal-intl/index.html

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp will sign the state's "fetal heartbeat bill" today. Georgia's so-called "heartbeat bill" will become one the most restrictive anti-abortion access laws in the country. (CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-abortion-law-governor-brian-kemp-signs-heartbeat-abortion-bill-into-law-today-2019-05-07/

Trump's inaugural committee official disputes the White House account that she was forced out because she had profited from her role in helping organize inaugural events. Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, a former adviser to Melanie Trump, claimed she was "thrown under the bus." Wolkoff has been cooperating with federal prosecutors in Manhattan who are investigating the committee's spending and fundraising. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/us/politics/trump-inauguration-stephanie-winston-wolkoff.html

New York State lawmakers plan to advance a bill this week to allow congressional committees to see Trump's New York State returns. The State Senate reportedly has enough votes to pass the bill, which would allow the New York Department of Taxation and Finance to release any state tax return requested by one of three congressional committees for any "specific and legitimate legislative purpose." (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/nyregion/trump-ny-tax-returns.html

Edited by sgamer82 on May 7th 2019 at 2:47:13 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#279865: May 7th 2019 at 1:45:08 PM

[up][up]

That's the boat I'm in, too. Allowing Trump to have carte blanche for pulling illegal stunts simply because the Senate GOP will sit on their hands and ignore it regardless is... bad. Obviously the Democrats have to take care regarding said impeachment, but Pelosi's statement was... a bit too broad/milquetoast for my liking.

What I'm really hoping for from the Mueller hearing is for one of the Democrats to get him to answer, under oath, the question of: "Were it not for the OLC guidelines, would you have recommended that Donald J. Trump be indicted on Obstruction of Justice charges?" If his answer is anything but a "no", that would pretty much be the go-ahead line for impeachment proceedings to begin.

[down]

That then presents the scenario of future administrations (Democrat, Republican, or whatever-party-rises-100-years-from-now) to point at this and go "Ha ha, fuck you!" when only part of Congress is willing to respond appropriately.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 7th 2019 at 4:55:03 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#279866: May 7th 2019 at 1:49:33 PM

Impeachment will fail. Nothing can change that.

Attempting to impeach him won't send the message that his actions have consequences because the democratically elected Senate will come out and say they don't. As is their 100% legal right to do so under the constitution and terms of impeachment.

If you wanna talk about carte blanche than an attempted impeachment is giving it to him.

That is giving him to ability to go on the record and say with 100% certainty that he cannot be held accountable by the Democrats.

Edited by LeGarcon on May 7th 2019 at 4:51:26 AM

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#279867: May 7th 2019 at 1:51:50 PM

And then they'll be accused of cowardice and ignoring their moral duty or something,

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#279868: May 7th 2019 at 1:53:17 PM

We have a moral duty to win and restore democratic norms.

Not fall on our swords so we can pat ourselves on the back.

Oh really when?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#279869: May 7th 2019 at 1:53:59 PM

It would send the message that the democrats are still trying to uphold the law to their voters.

Let's put it this way: If they fail, Fox news might be able to convince their viewers that this is just a witch hunt. If they never try, though, Democratic and swing voters might come to the conclusion that the democrats are just as corrupt as the Republicans are.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#279870: May 7th 2019 at 1:54:46 PM

There isn't an if.

Completely remove the concept of "if" when it comes to impeachment.

It's when they fail.

Everyone in favor of impeachment attempts need to pound that into their heads. This cannot succeed.

Edited by LeGarcon on May 7th 2019 at 4:56:13 AM

Oh really when?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#279871: May 7th 2019 at 1:57:31 PM

When they fail they have at least tried. Sometimes you have to show that you are ready to fall on your own sword in order to do what is right and lawful.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#279872: May 7th 2019 at 1:57:37 PM

[up][up]You are completely missing the point, and the level of condescension is unwarranted.

Edited by wisewillow on May 7th 2019 at 1:57:46 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#279873: May 7th 2019 at 1:58:46 PM

I just think actually winning and helping people is better than being a self made martyr to accomplish nothing but a feeling of satisfaction about yourself.

I'm sick of the left tripping over itself to perform self destructive symbolic gestures or having debates about who's perfect. It's time we got some actual work done.

Edited by LeGarcon on May 7th 2019 at 5:01:15 AM

Oh really when?
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279874: May 7th 2019 at 2:00:00 PM

[up][up] What is the point? Sincere question since I feel a failed impeachment guarantees more harm than good and it's certain to fail as things stand currently.

Edited by sgamer82 on May 7th 2019 at 3:02:48 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#279875: May 7th 2019 at 2:02:35 PM

Let's face it they need to control the senate before they can even dream of impeaching Trump,that's your winning condition there,they have the house which is one part of the victory condition but they can't win the game if they don't have both houses under their control

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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