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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279626: May 6th 2019 at 12:31:00 PM

It's why arresting Barr is important.

If it's shown Trump can't or won't protect his people from orders to disobey the law, that will save lives in the short and long term.

Oh and while it won't change anyone's mind, here's a petition.

https://www.dailykos.com/campaigns/petitions/sign-the-petition-to-congress-hold-attorney-general-bill-barr-in-contempt?source=20190503sp2

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 6th 2019 at 12:31:18 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279627: May 6th 2019 at 12:32:20 PM

Here's also a bit more detail on precedent.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/2/1639422/-Nixon-s-attorney-general-was-prosecuted-resigned-over-same-thing-Sessions-did

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279628: May 6th 2019 at 12:37:06 PM

The Attorney General is actually the perfect demonstration of the worsening of things brought on by replacing people with half a conscience.

Jeff Session was a horrible racist Keebler Elf. But he, at least, respected the law enough to recuse himself from the Mueller Investigation. William Barr is convinced that he is the final arbiter of justice and thus has nothing to fear from the law. Thus we moved from bad to worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's sitting on a premeditated pardon offer, either. We already know Trump told Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan that if they arrest him for lawbreaking on Trump's behalf, Trump will pardon him. That raises the question of who else he's promised advance pardons to.

Fortunately, Contempt of Congress is a civil affair, not a federal crime, so the President can't Pardon it. Barr probably doesn't know that, though. I'm not sure Trump does either.

But it won't matter if the House is too spineless to charge it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 6th 2019 at 1:38:57 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#279629: May 6th 2019 at 1:08:15 PM

Not sure how much this'll actually sway public opinion, but over four hundred Federal prosecutors, dating back as far as the Eisenhower administration, have said that were it not for the OLC guidelines regarding Presidential indictments, Trump would have been slapped with Obstruction of Justice rather quickly.

[down]

Sadly, it'll be chalked up as either "FAKE NEWS" or, because one of them is the guy that plans on trying to Primary Trump, a political attack by "The Establishment (TM)" to unseat a "popular" President.

Edited by ironballs16 on May 6th 2019 at 4:24:19 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279630: May 6th 2019 at 1:15:23 PM

If nothing else, we can throw this in the face of Trumpers who go on about "Law and Order."

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279632: May 6th 2019 at 3:58:27 PM

What was that war in England with the king on one side and Parliament on the other? I feel like we're in a version of that.

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#279633: May 6th 2019 at 4:00:01 PM

Mods, can you do something about all the fearmongerers here?

PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#279634: May 6th 2019 at 4:01:12 PM

[up][up]The English Civil War? (Which wasn't fought only in England and didn't strictly involve solely English participants, but, technicalities.)

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 6th 2019 at 12:01:25 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279635: May 6th 2019 at 4:04:11 PM

-Googles-

Yep. Looks like it. This must be what it felt like to live in Nixon's times.

Also, who calls themselves Roundheads? Were publicists not a thing back then?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279636: May 6th 2019 at 4:07:52 PM

Hopefully the House really hammers in that their powers aren't just suggestions, and holds those who refuse to obey accountable.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#279637: May 6th 2019 at 4:08:47 PM

[up]x5 what are you talking about? i dont see any unrealistic fearmongering here.

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 6th 2019 at 4:11:29 AM

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#279638: May 6th 2019 at 4:10:21 PM

[up][up][up]Well, apparently it was originally an insult - a reference to parliamentary regulations at the time which ensured that MPs had closely cropped hair. They later re-appropriated it, which would ordinarily indicate a sense of humour had a fair number of them - including Oliver Cromwell himself (though I should clarify that he wasn't an MP - he started out as a general on their side) - not been literal Puritans. These are the same people who closed theatres and banned celebrating christmas. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 6th 2019 at 12:15:05 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279639: May 6th 2019 at 4:11:15 PM

[up][up]There are some tropers saying they don't think Congress will go through with it. Which, hey, that's their opinion. But they're really trying to hammer it in as though it's fact.

Edited by kkhohoho on May 6th 2019 at 6:11:32 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279640: May 6th 2019 at 4:11:54 PM

[up][up]what are you talking about? i dont see any unrealistic fearmongering here.
I'm assuming it's in response to the "Congress are a bunch of chickens who are going to fold" posts and that "this is how Deomcracy dies" poem a while back.

razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#279641: May 6th 2019 at 4:12:22 PM

given the current track record i dont think that's an unreasonable opinion to have. it's certainly not fearmongering.

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#279642: May 6th 2019 at 4:12:26 PM

[up]x5 People in the last few pages saying Trump won't be dragged out by the Secret Service if he refuses to leave if he loses the 2020 election. As well as what the posters above me pointed out.

Edited by CookingCat on May 6th 2019 at 4:13:21 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279643: May 6th 2019 at 4:12:38 PM

Well now I'm just imagining AOC and Nancy Pelosi with bowl cuts.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#279644: May 6th 2019 at 4:19:47 PM

[up]Imagining Trump with a bowl cut, and he looks hilariously like an onion.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279645: May 6th 2019 at 4:20:49 PM

I'm wondering if that makes McConnell Larry or Curly.

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/05/06/day-837/

    Day 837: Legitimacy 
1/ More than 370 former federal prosecutors asserted that Trump would have been charged with obstruction of justice if he was not president. Robert Mueller declined to exonerate Trump in his report, citing a Justice Department legal opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted. The former career government employees who worked in Republican and Democratic administrations signed on to a statement saying, "Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-would-have-been-charged-with-obstruction-were-he-not-president-hundreds-of-former-federal-prosecutors-assert/2019/05/06/e4946a1a-7006-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html

[READ] The statement by former federal prosecutors. (Medium)

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1

📌 Day 819: Mueller's office chose not to charge Trump with obstruction out of "fairness concerns," because "we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President's capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional process for addressing presidential misconduct." According to the report, Mueller considered Trump's written answers "inadequate," but knew a subpoena would impose "substantial delay" and they believed they had "sufficient evidence to understand relevant events and to make certain assessments without the President's testimony." Trump stated more than 30 times in his written answers that he "does not 'recall' or 'remember' or have an 'independent recollection'" of information investigators asked about. Mueller, citing numerous legal constraints in his report, declined to exonerate Trump, writing: "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment." (NBC News / Washington Post / New York Times / Politico / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mueller-s-report-trump-sections-blacked-out-released-public-n990191

2/ Trump: "Bob Mueller should not testify." On Friday, Trump said he'd leave the decision on whether Mueller should testify "up to our attorney general," William Barr, who had earlier last week said he had no objection to Mueller testifying. Trump's reversal came hours after the House Judiciary Committee formally invited Mueller to testify on May 15th. The date has not yet been confirmed. (Washington Post / New York Times / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/05/robert-mueller-special-counsel-cicilline-1302632

3/ Nancy Pelosi warned that Trump might not voluntarily give up power in 2020 if he isn't defeated by a margin so "big" he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a Democratic victory. Pelosi, recalling her thinking in the run-up to the 2018 elections, said "If we win by four seats, by a thousand votes each, he's not going to respect the election. [Trump] would poison the public mind." Since winning the 2016 presidential election, Trump's repeated unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud, convened a commission to study the alleged fraud, and recently warned Republican lawmakers to be more "paranoid" about how votes are counted in 2020. And, in 2016, Trump refused to say he would accept the outcome of the election if Hillary Clinton won, saying: "I will keep you in suspense." (New York Times / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/politics/donald-trump-2020-election/

📌 Day 4: Without evidence, Trump tells lawmakers 3 million to 5 million illegal ballots cost him the popular vote. Days after being sworn in, President Trump insisted to congressional leaders invited to a reception at the White House that he would have won the popular vote had it not been for millions of illegal votes, according to people familiar with the meeting. Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that widespread voter fraud caused him to lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, even while he clinched the presidency with an electoral college victory. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/at-white-house-trump-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/

📌 Day 112: Trump launched a commission to investigate voter fraud. The effort will be spearheaded by Mike Pence and will look into allegations of improper voting and fraudulent voter registration in states and across the nation. Trump is expected to sign the executive order today. (Associated Press / ABC News / CNN)

https://apnews.com/78ecd2bdc0ca46a5ad2a1afb4cd122a2/AP-sources:-Trump-to-launch-panel-to-investigate-voter-fraud

📌 Day 350: Trump dissolved his voter fraud commission. He blamed states for refusing to comply with the panel's requests for voter information, including birth dates and partial Social Security numbers. The commission was set up in May to investigate Trump's unfounded claims that massive voter fraud had cost him the popular vote. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/presidential-election-commission/index.html

📌 Day 564: Documents from Trump's voter fraud commission "do not contain evidence of widespread voter fraud," according to Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap, one of the panel's 11 members. After reading through more than 8,000 pages of documents, Dunlap said he believed that the goal of the commission "wasn’t just a matter of investigating President Trump's claims that 3 to 5 million people voted illegally" but that it "seems to have been to validate those claims." The panel was disbanded in January, and the White House claimed at the time that despite "substantial evidence of voter fraud," the commission was shut down due to legal challenges from states. The panel never presented any findings or evidence of widespread voter fraud. Kris Kobach, the commission's vice chair, however, said at the time that the panel was shut down because "some people on the left were getting uncomfortable about how much we were finding out." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/08/03/the-most-bizarre-thing-ive-ever-been-a-part-of-trump-panel-found-no-voter-fraud-ex-member-says/

4/ Trump claimed that two years of his term were "stollen" as a result of Mueller's investigation and suggested that his first term should be extended by two years. Trump retweeted conservative pundit Jerry Falwell Jr., who wrote: "I now support reparations — Trump should have 2 yrs added to his 1st term as pay back for time stolen by this corrupt failed coup." Trump, echoing Falwell's statements, tweeted that the Democrats "have stollen [sic] two years of my (our) Presidency (Collusion Delusion) that we will never be able to get back." Trump later corrected his spelling, claiming that two years of his presidency had been "stolen." (Politico / CNN / Washington Post)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html

5/ The House Judiciary Committee took its first formal step toward holding Attorney General William Barr in contempt of Congress for missing today's deadline to produce Mueller's unredacted report and the underlying evidence. Barr also skipped a hearing before the committee last week. The committee will vote at 10 a.m. on Wednesday whether to hold Barr in contempt. Hours after the committee announced the vote, the Justice Department offered to meet Wednesday afternoon to discuss an "acceptable accommodation" that would potentially give more lawmakers access to a less-redacted version of the report, in addition to "possible disclosure of certain materials" cited in Mueller's report. (CNN / Politico / New York Times / Washington Post / Reuters)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/politics/mueller-report-house-contempt-barr/index.html

6/ Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin rejected House Democrats' request for six years of Trump's tax returns, claiming the request "lacks a legitimate legislative purpose." It's the third time Mnuchin has missed a congressional deadline to turn over the documents. Mnuchin previously called the request "unprecedented," and argued that it raised "serious constitutional issues" that could have consequences for taxpayer privacy. The power for lawmakers to seek individual tax returns was explicitly written into law in 1924. (Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / NBC News / CNN / Politico)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/politics/tax-returns-trump-congress-showdown/index.html

The New York attorney general filed a lawsuit against the Treasury Department and IRS for failing to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request within the mandated time limit. In July 2018, the Treasury and the IRS released new guidance eliminating some donor disclosure requirements for non-501(c)(3) tax-exempt groups. In October, the New York and New Jersey attorneys general filed a FOIA request for information about the origins and development of the guidance. The New York and New Jersey attorneys general are asking the court to order the Treasury and the IRS to disclose all records that are relevant to the FOIA requests. (The Hill / Daily Beast / Law and Crime)

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/442315-new-york-attorney-general-sues-trump-treasury-irs

poll/ 60% of Americans say Trump has not been honest and truthful when it comes to Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference with the 2016 presidential election. 37% say he has been honest and truthful. 42% say what they've read, heard or seen about Mueller's report doesn't clear Trump of wrongdoing, compared with 29% who say it does clear him, and another 29% who say they're unsure. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/hung-jury-public-remains-divided-over-mueller-probe-new-nbc-n1001886

    Notables 
Michael Cohen reported to federal prison to begin his three-year prison sentence for tax evasion and campaign finance violations. Cohen said "There still remains much to be told and I look forward to the day where I can share the truth." (Associated Press / New York Times)

https://apnews.com/8b9d39ea54374ae296a9a8401bf58cb8

The Trump administration deployed an aircraft carrier strike group and a bomber task force to the Middle East as a show of force against Iran. U.S. officials said the deployment is a response to "clear indications" that Iran and its proxies are planning an attack against U.S. forces. National Security Adviser John Bolton said the U.S. is "not seeking war with the Iranian regime, but we are fully prepared to respond to any attack, whether by proxy, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or regular Iranian forces." Bolton and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo provided no details or proof of Iran's actions or intentions, but Pompeo said the move was "something we’ve been working on for a little while." (ABC News / Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/86e17a4f133046d9a054b68e7cd675cf

Trump named the former head of the Border Patrol as the new director of ICE. Mark Morgan is a former FBI agent who served as head of the Border Patrol during the final months of the Obama administration. Morgan supports Trump's call for a border wall, Trump's decision to declare a national emergency to secure funding for the wall, and the administration's proposal to take migrants caught crossing the border and drop them off in sanctuary cities. Morgan's appointment will require confirmation from the Senate. (NPR)

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/05/720481627/president-trump-names-mark-morgan-former-border-patrol-chief-to-lead-ice?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190505

Trump threatened to increase tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese from 10% to 25%. The Trump administration accused China of "reneging" on its agreed to trade commitments and the tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods starting Friday. (Washington Post / New York Times / Axios / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.axios.com/trump-china-tariffs-25-percent-8f9b80b6-9abf-44e8-91c8-14aeb5921c2c.html

North Korea fired several short-range ballistic missiles. South Korea expressed concern that the launches were a violation of an inter-Korean agreement to cease all hostile acts. The missile test was North Korea's first since 2017. (Politico / CNN / New York Times)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/05/politics/north-korea-missile-launch-image/index.html

Edited by sgamer82 on May 6th 2019 at 5:21:14 AM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#279646: May 6th 2019 at 4:29:10 PM

Well, apparently it was originally an insult - a reference to parliamentary regulations at the time which ensured that M Ps had closely cropped hair. They later re-appropriated it, which would ordinarily indicate a sense of humour had a fair number of them - including Oliver Cromwell himself (though I should clarify that he wasn't an MP - he started out as a general on their side) - not been literal Puritans. These are the same people who closed theatres and banned celebrating christmas. :V

The terms 'prime minister' and 'Tory' were originally insults, too. Also, more recently, the Tories called Corbyn a 'Marxist' during PMQ, which resulted in social media trending the tag '#MustBeAMarxist' for hours on end because they support social policies (you know, 'I support affordable housing for young people #MustBeAMarxist' or 'I oppse NHS privatisation #MustBeAMarxist'). Even now, a couple of months later, when the Tories do something that's anti-immigration or anti-human rights or anti-NHS, etc., people trot out the hashtag (yes, there's an unfortunate pun in that last phrase, I know).

It does seem to be a thing in British politics that insults get rebranded.

Edited by Wyldchyld on May 6th 2019 at 12:31:25 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#279647: May 6th 2019 at 4:29:19 PM

On a more America-appropriate note, I have sometimes idly considered what might happen if Trump lost the election and actually genuinely refused to leave the White House - for the record, I don't think he would actually do that, he'd probably just storm off in a huff and take to Twitter to whine about CROOKED CLINTON ELECTION TAMPERING for the rest of his life (I wonder if Nixon would have done that if he had Twitter back in 1974? :V). But in the off-chance he did refuse to let go and Congress didn't intervene, I feel that'd ultimately kick-start some extraordinary, never-seen-before crisis, like a popular uprising in DC, or a coup engineered by the intelligence services.

It's very unlikely, but just imagine: the CIA having to depose its own president for once in its history. :V

[up]Figures. Must be our sense of humour.

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 6th 2019 at 12:35:50 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#279648: May 6th 2019 at 4:35:09 PM

I could see Trump setting up in Mar-a-Largo and claiming he's going to set up a real White House there (it had the 'Winter White House' nickname even before Trump bought the place). He'll almost certainly make insulting pronouncements on how he thinks his successors are doing, regardless of how willingly he ends up leaving the White House.

Edited by Wyldchyld on May 6th 2019 at 12:37:06 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#279649: May 6th 2019 at 4:37:07 PM

Say, what happened to the legal/judicial battle over Trump's "NASHEENAL EEMUHGENSEE" bullshit?

Edited by MarqFJA on May 6th 2019 at 2:37:25 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279650: May 6th 2019 at 4:47:08 PM

[up]X3 Congress would only need to intervene if the entire secret service went rogue, that’s highly unlikely to happen.

If Trump looses he can moan all he likes, on inauguration day for the new president the secret service will pack him into a car and drive him back to Trump Tower. He’d legally stop being president at midday and would just be some random dude trespassing at the White House.

Nah my concern isn’t that, it’s what Trump would do between loosing in November and stopping being president in January. Literally shiting on the resolute desk like a judgement-proof existed tenant seems like the good outcome in that situation.

A lot of precedent is going to be set in the next week or so, we’ve now got member of the federal government openly committing crimes for Trump, if Congress does hold Barr in contempt and try to arrest him it’s gonna be big, because Trump might well order the secret service to resist the capital police by force, if they refuse we should be okay, but if they follow though there could be a shootout between capital police and secret service agents next week.

Edited by Silasw on May 6th 2019 at 11:50:58 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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