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AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#279226: May 1st 2019 at 3:57:34 PM

[up][up][up] Is there any precedence for this? Or are we about to stake out uncharted territory?

Edit: The pagetopper needs context (that being the possibility of the Attourney General being held in contempt). 3/10

Edited by AzurePaladin on May 1st 2019 at 6:58:21 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279227: May 1st 2019 at 4:26:22 PM

The DOJ is gearing up its case to have the ACA struck down entirely.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/01/politics/affordable-care-act-lawsuit-trump/index.html

Man, imagine having to defend this to independents during an election year...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279228: May 1st 2019 at 5:19:19 PM

I wonder how they'll make the argument other than, "We want poor people to die."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279230: May 1st 2019 at 5:24:39 PM

Something something personal freedom, something something Obama bad, something something fiscal responsibility.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279231: May 1st 2019 at 5:37:38 PM

Well disaster as this may be, I'm hoping that Barr will be held in contempt of Congress.

Joffrey may be immune but he'll gladly let others be thrown to the wolves like Littlefinger, Varys, and Renly.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#279232: May 1st 2019 at 7:52:41 PM

If only we had a real-life show!Varys with the same level of influence and empathy for the downtrodden.

Also, I can't imagine what would happen next if Stenger actually does end up going to the DoJ to arrest Barr. Never mind that I never thought that those words would come out of my mouth.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279233: May 1st 2019 at 8:04:07 PM

This is basically a natural result of the fact the Democrats keep trying to play Real Politic. They're trying to be mature adults about this but the fact they're focusing on the election means that Republicans think they can break the law with impunity.

There needs to be people who are gone after and brought to task so the rule of law seems to mean something.

And yes, this means casually arresting the Attorney General.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 1st 2019 at 8:06:30 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279234: May 1st 2019 at 8:18:00 PM

It wouldn't even be the first time a Cabinet member has been arrested.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#279235: May 1st 2019 at 9:00:45 PM

James Comey wrote an Op-Ed for the NYT that’s worth a read, regardless of your opinion of him.

People have been asking me hard questions. What happened to the leaders in the Trump administration, especially the attorney general, Bill Barr, who I have said was due the benefit of the doubt?

How could Mr. Barr, a bright and accomplished lawyer, start channeling the president in using words like “no collusion” and F.B.I. “spying”? And downplaying acts of obstruction of justice as products of the president’s being “frustrated and angry,” something he would never say to justify the thousands of crimes prosecuted every day that are the product of frustration and anger?

How could he write and say things about the report by Robert Mueller, the special counsel, that were apparently so misleading that they prompted written protest from the special counsel himself?

How could Mr. Barr go before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday and downplay President Trump’s attempt to fire Mr. Mueller before he completed his work?

And how could Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, after the release of Mr. Mueller’s report that detailed Mr. Trump’s determined efforts to obstruct justice, give a speech quoting the president on the importance of the rule of law? Or on resigning, thank a president who relentlessly attacked both him and the Department of Justice he led for “the courtesy and humor you often display in our personal conversations”?

What happened to these people?

I don’t know for sure. People are complicated, so the answer is most likely complicated. But I have some idea from four months of working close to Mr. Trump and many more months of watching him shape others.

Amoral leaders have a way of revealing the character of those around them. Sometimes what they reveal is inspiring. For example, James Mattis, the former secretary of defense, resigned over principle, a concept so alien to Mr. Trump that it took days for the president to realize what had happened, before he could start lying about the man.

But more often, proximity to an amoral leader reveals something depressing. I think that’s at least part of what we’ve seen with Bill Barr and Rod Rosenstein. Accomplished people lacking inner strength can’t resist the compromises necessary to survive Mr. Trump and that adds up to something they will never recover from. It takes character like Mr. Mattis’s to avoid the damage, because Mr. Trump eats your soul in small bites.

It starts with your sitting silent while he lies, both in public and private, making you complicit by your silence. In meetings with him, his assertions about what “everyone thinks” and what is “obviously true” wash over you, unchallenged, as they did at our private dinner on Jan. 27, 2017, because he’s the president and he rarely stops talking. As a result, Mr. Trump pulls all of those present into a silent circle of assent.

Speaking rapid-fire with no spot for others to jump into the conversation, Mr. Trump makes everyone a co-conspirator to his preferred set of facts, or delusions. I have felt it — this president building with his words a web of alternative reality and busily wrapping it around all of us in the room.

I must have agreed that he had the largest inauguration crowd in history because I didn’t challenge that. Everyone must agree that he has been treated very unfairly. The web building never stops.

From the private circle of assent, it moves to public displays of personal fealty at places like cabinet meetings. While the entire world is watching, you do what everyone else around the table does — you talk about how amazing the leader is and what an honor it is to be associated with him.

Sure, you notice that Mr. Mattis never actually praises the president, always speaking instead of the honor of representing the men and women of our military. But he’s a special case, right? Former Marine general and all. No way the rest of us could get away with that. So you praise, while the world watches, and the web gets tighter.

Next comes Mr. Trump attacking institutions and values you hold dear — things you have always said must be protected and which you criticized past leaders for not supporting strongly enough. Yet you are silent. Because, after all, what are you supposed to say? He’s the president of the United States.

You feel this happening. It bothers you, at least to some extent. But his outrageous conduct convinces you that you simply must stay, to preserve and protect the people and institutions and values you hold dear. Along with Republican members of Congress, you tell yourself you are too important for this nation to lose, especially now.

You can’t say this out loud — maybe not even to your family — but in a time of emergency, with the nation led by a deeply unethical person, this will be your contribution, your personal sacrifice for America. You are smarter than Donald Trump, and you are playing a long game for your country, so you can pull it off where lesser leaders have failed and gotten fired by tweet.

Of course, to stay, you must be seen as on his team, so you make further compromises. You use his language, praise his leadership, tout his commitment to values.

And then you are lost. He has eaten your soul.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#279236: May 1st 2019 at 9:06:57 PM

^I agree with him that an amoral leader reveals the characters of those around him, but the rest of this goes too far into hand-wringing "oh, what has Trump done to these poor, presumably decent, people" for me. Because they weren't decent before.You don't just suddenly become morally compromised.

This feels like the same "we're all suffering in silence, just like you, and we're noble heroes for standing up to him as much as we have" BS that other Op-Ed tried to pull.

It's been fun.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#279237: May 1st 2019 at 9:13:43 PM

Comey is an ass who doesn’t understand what he did or why he is still wrong.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#279238: May 1st 2019 at 9:21:36 PM

In other news, Kamala Harris was an absolute boss at the Barr hearing.

She was a prosecutor before coming a senator, and it shows.

Kamala 2020? I could totally see her as our first Madam President.

Edited by megaeliz on May 1st 2019 at 12:50:46 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279239: May 1st 2019 at 9:45:49 PM

Comey is an ass who doesn’t understand what he did or why he is still wrong.

I think he understands exactly what he did. He was pressured repeatedly to open up a case he'd already closed and did then this contributed to electing a lunatic.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#279240: May 2nd 2019 at 12:53:41 AM

^I agree with him that an amoral leader reveals the characters of those around him, but the rest of this goes too far into hand-wringing "oh, what has Trump done to these poor, presumably decent, people" for me. Because they weren't decent before.You don't just suddenly become morally compromised.

This feels like the same "we're all suffering in silence, just like you, and we're noble heroes for standing up to him as much as we have" BS that other Op-Ed tried to pull.

That's the opposite of what he's saying in that op-ed. He's saying that those people tell themselves that, but that it's a lie because when push comes to shove they'll make another compromise rather than stand up to the president. And that this reveals their true character. If anything, it's a warning against thinking of yourself as the good guy when you work for Trump, because unless you stand up to Trump at every possible opportunity, you're not.

Edited by Clarste on May 2nd 2019 at 12:59:44 PM

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#279241: May 2nd 2019 at 12:59:00 AM

That assumes of course that they're lying to themselves at all. People like Barr and Miller have no illusions about what they're doing.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#279242: May 2nd 2019 at 6:27:15 AM

Well, it's official: Barr didn't show up.

Does this mean the FBI has to go and arrest him? If so, we all know how that's going to be spun. DEEEEEEEEEP STAAAAAAAAATE

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#279243: May 2nd 2019 at 6:29:28 AM

they can issue an arrest warrant but he might have fled the country

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#279244: May 2nd 2019 at 6:33:54 AM

Barr not showing up seems... odd. I'm going to wait for the full story to come out, but seriously? It's like not describing a horror so that people make up their own worse horrors.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#279245: May 2nd 2019 at 7:17:47 AM

[up][up][up]The FBI aren't under Congress' command, but Homeland Security's. Congress' Sergeant-at-Arms will have to make the arrest (expecting help from Trump? Not happening).

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#279246: May 2nd 2019 at 7:20:49 AM

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure how that worked. So it's Paul D. Irving who has to make the arrest then?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279247: May 2nd 2019 at 7:27:01 AM

Barr not showing up seems... odd. I'm going to wait for the full story to come out, but seriously? It's like not describing a horror so that people make up their own worse horrors.

There's nothing odd about it. He's been belligerently defying the House for a while now, and he already stated that he won't show up to this hearing.

Barr is entirely convinced that his and Trump's authority supercedes the House's, such that he can literally just refuse to cooperate and there will be nothing they can do to make him. Other Trump allies have been doing the same thing.

We are presently in a Constitutional Crisis, wherein the Executive is outright ordering people to violate Legislative subpoenas. The House sends out a request for documents and testimony, and the White House immediately follows suit with a letter demanding that the recipient not cooperate with the House's request.

Meanwhile, Trump allies are just straight-up refusing the House's requests left and right. Now that Democrats control the House, this is Trump's new strategy for dealing with their investigations. He's testing Congress's ability to actually make him stop breaking laws.

Consequentially, things are about to get crazy in Washington. One of two things is about to happen. Either the House will hold Barr in contempt which will require their Sergeant-at-Arms to march into the Justice Department and arrest the Attorney General. Or they'll blink, Trump's ability to simply ignore laws will be further reinforced, and our country will slide deeper towards authoritarian control.

It's a make-or-break moment for our government. The precedent set here will define the next two years, and possibly more.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 2nd 2019 at 8:31:12 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279248: May 2nd 2019 at 7:31:17 AM

Which is why we need to have Barr arrested.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279249: May 2nd 2019 at 7:37:01 AM

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/barr-skips-house-hearing-mueller-report/index.html

The Democrats are delaying until Monday of next week to make a decision on contempt because Barr, unsurprisingly, didn't bother to show up for Congress.

But they really should arrest the asshole.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#279250: May 2nd 2019 at 7:37:33 AM

Is there anything that would stop that happening/have the threat of contempt become an empty threat?


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