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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279051: Apr 28th 2019 at 3:15:10 PM

China's dictator has concentration camps for Muslims. He is a monster and even worse than Trump.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#279052: Apr 28th 2019 at 5:17:41 PM

I can't even think about what's happening to the Uighur without remembering watching Human Harvest. Trump a shit, but he's not at Human Harvest levels of shit.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#279053: Apr 28th 2019 at 5:25:24 PM

I can't help but think some of the comparisons fall flat when you consider what Trump is actually capable of getting done.

Trump is a terrifying move towards authoritarianism, and things like the immigrant kids in cages are horrible, but Trump isn't an actual dictator and he can't actually do whatever he wants.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279054: Apr 28th 2019 at 5:32:19 PM

We can't judge him on what he might do but what he has done and what others have done.

So yes, I'm comfortable with the actual dictator being worse even if Trump might be a dictator in worse circumstances.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#279055: Apr 28th 2019 at 6:08:55 PM

I will point out that when I said the CCP are better than Trump I was purely talking about their ability to strategize, spread the influence of their state, and play the long game. I.e pragmatic skills that arguably make them more dangerous.

Obviously, from any humanist-liberal perspective, they're morally just as bad if not worse.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279056: Apr 28th 2019 at 6:13:06 PM

You can make a deal with the CCP and expect them to act the same way on it ten years down the line. Trump has shown that the US doesn’t have that kind of consistency, that causes issues.

Faith in the consistency of US foreign policy can’t be restored by the next president, it will take two or maybe three presidents in a row restoring consistency before it can be trusted in again.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#279057: Apr 28th 2019 at 6:18:43 PM

[up] Not necessarily true, just look at how they treated Hong Kong.

And the USA has broken its word in the past, Trump is just the most obvious breach in a while.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279058: Apr 28th 2019 at 6:40:52 PM

Acting the same way isn’t the same as acting in good faith or reasonably, I said China was consistent, not moral.

The US was consistent until Bush when you guys basiclly started tearing up decade old international alliances and threatening global stability out of a thirst for blood, Trump has shown that Bush wasn’t a one of mistake, you guys’ve have made a habit out of it now and you need to show you’ve kicked the habit before you can be trusted again.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#279059: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:36:01 PM

I don't think being consistently immoral is any more preferable to being inconsistently moral.

i'm tired, my friend
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279060: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:44:53 PM

It makes it a lot easier to plan for, you can make a plan based on China having a reasonably similar foreign policy today and 20 years from now, one can no longer make a plan based on the US having a reasonably similar foreign policy today and 20 years from now.

Planning for a bad guy to act bad for 20 years isn’t that difficult, planning for a good guy guy to be good then turn bad for a random 4-8 of the next 20 years is rather tough.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279061: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:51:15 PM

Except one can't count on the CCP being consistent. Not really.

What Xi Jinping is doing is the equivalent of MAGA (except it'd be MCGA in this case). There's a reason the CCP has really accelerated their expansionism, flirted with military intervention, is cracking down harder and harder on Hong Kong, and is beating the invasion drums concerning Taiwan louder than ever. Nationalism is slowly overtaking the ostensibly pragmatic assholery that mostly defined the CCP in the past.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:52:17 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279062: Apr 28th 2019 at 8:18:47 PM

Except that none of that’s that unusual for China, it’s still consistent with how China has been for the last twenty years. It’s not the same but it’s an logical expansion and adaptation.

To the best of my knowledge China hasn’t started tearing up decade old treaties just because it feels like it, it may cheat at them and ignore parts, but that’s a risk that was there when the treaties were made.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279063: Apr 28th 2019 at 8:22:00 PM

It's like China has been heading down a bad direction for a while now, but Xi Jinping has suddenly slammed his honey-covered bear paw on the gas pedal.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 11:22:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#279064: Apr 28th 2019 at 8:41:05 PM

More like China has never been in a good direction. I mean, Mao's a low bar to slide under.

I honestly think that once/if America pulls its shit together, it'll be able to take an increasingly leading role in the world again, if only because much of the rest of NATO will be able to sympathize. We're not unique in suffering from a bout of fascism - that seems to be a worldwide trend right now, and if we pull through and throw it off, the world will be happy to encourage America to take up its security responsibilities again.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279065: Apr 28th 2019 at 8:46:29 PM

[up]And even before Mao China wasn't doing so hot. Chiang Kai-shek was a piece of work himself.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#279066: Apr 28th 2019 at 9:45:04 PM

China has basically been royally fucked since the Opium Wars.

Mainly because it's not, when it comes down to it, a single nation (even beyond the two Chinas), but rather a (vestigial) empire made up of several nations with related but distinct ethnicities and cultures that have only ever been unified when they're under strongly autocratic leadership.

Angry gets shit done.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279067: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:40:30 PM

China is at its most powerful globally.

It's just not a nice nation to its people or its neighbors.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279068: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:43:57 PM

It's not a nice nation to anyone. China has a rather cynical view of geopolitics.

Comes with a history defined by civil war and being divided up like a pie by foreign powers, one of which made a fortune by selling poison to you.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#279069: Apr 28th 2019 at 11:57:20 PM

Back to primary matters: Can a woman beat Trump? Some Democrats wonder if it's worth the risk Also a bit old news but McConnell plan to hike smoking age could be win for tobacco companies goes into detail about why concerns exist. Which include racial profiling. Go fig.

Another piece about the Evil Turtle

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Apr 29th 2019 at 9:03:11 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#279070: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:11:06 AM

Visas Are The Newest Weapon In U.S.-China Rivalry:

Wang Wen proudly says that he has been to over 20 U.S. states. He flies between the U.S. and China every few months for his job as director of the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, a university think tank in Beijing.

At least he did until a few weeks ago, when he received an email from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing. His 10-year U.S. business visa had been abruptly canceled with no explanation. He was told he could apply for a single-entry business visa instead, if he was able to list his last 15 years of travel history.

"It was too much personal information to American government, so I rejected having to apply again," Wang tells NPR.

Visas are the latest weapon in a growing rivalry between the U.S. and China. This year, the U.S. canceled visas for a number of prominent Chinese scholars with government links over concerns that such exchanges are conduits for peddling influence and for espionage. Increased scrutiny has delayed visas to hundreds of Chinese students. Meanwhile, American academics continue to fail to receive visas to China.

Academic exchanges between the U.S. and China have blossomed in frequency and scope since relations were normalized in 1978. Now, as relations sour, Chinese scholars and students face suspicions of espionage and spreading propaganda. The U.S. scrutiny is especially intense for Chinese scholars affiliated with state-linked think tanks and research institutions.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279071: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:14:32 AM

[up][up]

“The total impact of Clinton’s gender is impossible to measure,” they write. “Nevertheless, it appears that she was hurt more by gender than she was helped,” adding that the “2016 campaign appeared to activate modern sexism, especially among white men.”

Some Democratic primary voters clearly learned this lesson. As Sharon Quinn, 70, of Scranton, Pennsylvania, put it at an O’Rourke campaign event in March: “We need someone who the boys will vote for, OK?"

Ouch.

Edited by M84 on Apr 30th 2019 at 3:14:44 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#279072: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:15:01 AM

NVM.

Edited by CookingCat on Apr 29th 2019 at 4:08:18 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279073: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:16:50 AM

Also this bit of the article was disturbing:

Some academics argue that success on the congressional and state level does not necessarily translate into success on the presidential level.

"Women do quite well politically when they are perceived as being in service positions and wanting to have power as much as in that they will be serving a local constituency," said Kate Manne, a philosophy professor at Cornell University who has written extensively about gender and politics. "Problems arise when women are trying to run for the presidency, because that is the ultimate masculine-coded authority position and one is subordinate to no one."

Basically, people are fine with voting for female politicians as long as they are reassured that those female politicians still ultimately have to answer to a man.

Edited by M84 on Apr 30th 2019 at 3:17:46 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#279074: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:26:17 AM

You might find this Google Scholar search result sobering, then.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279075: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:28:01 AM

It's something I think we all already knew deep down, but I suppose it's worth having some actual papers and studies on the matter too.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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