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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279026: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:02:08 AM

Would you rather

1)A Democrat is elected President but the Republicans now have both houses and the democrats lose what they've gained.

Or

The Republican President remains but both houses are controlled by the Democrats

Every second Trump spends in the WH, he perverts it.

He has to go asap. So yeah, I prefer the first option.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:02:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#279027: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:06:41 AM

I am actually more inclined to go for #2, since Congress has more say on the details on domestic policies and also much less scrutiny of their behaviour. The existence of Trump does not appreciably change these factors IMO, and I've been long of the opinion that Congressional Republicans are not a jot better than Trump.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#279028: Apr 28th 2019 at 7:30:03 AM

I think that number 2 is probably objectively better, but number 1 probably looks better. Executive Orders are not law. It's a lot harder to get a law repealed then an Executive Order.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#279029: Apr 28th 2019 at 8:12:44 AM

Unless #2 is a veto proof majority, I’d go with #1. There are instances in history when Congress was essentially the dominant branch of government.

Edited by Parable on Apr 28th 2019 at 8:13:44 AM

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#279030: Apr 28th 2019 at 9:36:07 AM

I really don't know. Just having an out-and-out white supremacist like Trump in the White House is a beacon to all the racists in America and overseas. If the Democrats gain two houses, they're still limited with what they can do, and Trump is perfectly fine with destroying our government until he gets what he wants.

But the thing to remember is that Trump is a symptom, not the disease- or if you prefer, he's a secondary infection. The whole Republican party is behind him now, because all the factions get what they want. Not only would a Republican house and senate block Democratic legislation, they'll be prepping the ground for the next Trump.

If I had to choose, I would say the Republicans get the White House, and the Democrats get everything else.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#279031: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:07:48 AM

Trump needs to go, he's currently the face of America and thus, he is a stain on the international reputation of USA, his presence basically means that now, every single negative stereotype about Americans is true.

To give a classic example. Foreign authoritarians can easily use Trump as a way to justify themselves as a last stand against American imperialism. Dear God that we have seen it those years.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:08:33 PM

Watch me destroying my country
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279032: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:27:16 AM

If Trump is reelected, the future of America's alliances is in serious trouble.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#279033: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:47:00 AM

To be honest, it mihht be too late to undo the damage Trump has done to our alliances. Even if the next president is perfect, other countries might still be wary of trusting on word on anything, knowing that every four years another Trump might randomly appear and undo all our agreements.

And quite frankly maybe it'd be smart of them not to trust us anymore.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#279034: Apr 28th 2019 at 11:14:20 AM

I would want to agree, but seeing the world stage, I might sound as a Neo Con, but for someone in the third world, USA is our best bet.

Watch me destroying my country
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#279035: Apr 28th 2019 at 11:29:24 AM

Yup, Beijing, Moscow and their minions are far, far worse. America might pull out of this nosedive, I don't see the other options reforming into anything remotely acceptable.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#279036: Apr 28th 2019 at 11:29:25 AM

Personally I think the next president going forward should go in armed with the knowledge that not only that Trump happened, but that there is the possibility that he will happen again. And that this foreign policy should be not just mending bridges, but also asking the few allies (which BTW shouldn't include Russia, NK or China by any sane definition of the terms) left and neutral states for help in protecting America from herself or the world from a rouge America (as in preparing for the next Trump).

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Apr 28th 2019 at 11:32:27 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#279037: Apr 28th 2019 at 11:34:45 AM

Yup, Beijing, Moscow and their minions are far, far worse. America might pull out of this nosedive, I don't see the other options reforming into anything remotely acceptable.

Moscow might be but it would be a mistake to assume that Beijing is, when it comes to international alliances stability is more important than human rights and China has the former.

It would be a mistake to preemptively declare countries deciding they're the reasonable alternative impossible.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#279038: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:03:15 PM

Even if we assume this is true the problem with China is that they are prone towards using you. See that infamous airport in Sri Lanka, an equally infamous dam in Ecuador and the generally questionable nature of their projects. Trust is perhaps even more important than stability.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#279039: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:06:30 PM

They’re also committing genocide against Muslims, don’t have any elections, and are engaging in neo-colonialism across Africa.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#279040: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:06:32 PM

[up][up]True, I don't think we should assume that a deluge of countries will flock to China but I think there is a very real chance they could exploit the unreliability of the US to convince states to align with them.

[up]They aren't committing genocide and this would be relevant if we were discussing their morality, but we aren't. Cruelty and Great Power politics are fully compatible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:07:27 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#279041: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:06:40 PM

[up][up][up] ...Eh, all nations use each other, so I'm not strongly against that. However, China's record on human rights issues is still too black to be comfortable working alongside them.

[up] That is my worry as well.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 28th 2019 at 2:07:14 PM

Watch me destroying my country
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#279042: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:07:50 PM

Thanks, but I think bribing Trump is marginally more effective than trusting China, based on Trump's activities regarding Saudi Arabia anyway.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#279043: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:13:09 PM

Thanks, but I think bribing Trump is marginally more effective than trusting China, based on Trump's activities regarding Saudi Arabia anyway.

I hadn't considered that perspective, I think you're right.

Still, unlike Trump China has demonstrated the capacity to change and work on improving their behavior (in a strictly pragmatic sense) so it's not implausible that they'd continue to work on their PR and make themselves appear more trustworthy to wavering states. So that situation could very well change.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279044: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:35:41 PM

The CCP are only going to get worse as long as Xi Jinping and his cronies are running the show.

China is basically being one by someone who is essentially a somewhat smarter version of Trump. Not quite as blatantly stupid or awful, but still a petty thin-skinned tyrant at heart. Oh, and pretty much no real checks to his power either.

Edited by M84 on Apr 29th 2019 at 3:36:05 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#279045: Apr 28th 2019 at 12:43:05 PM

He's so petty that the new Winnie the Pooh movie was banned in China because of a meme comparing him to the eponymous character lol

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 28th 2019 at 3:43:16 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#279046: Apr 28th 2019 at 1:00:23 PM

Not just the movie. Any mention of Pooh bear online is Banned in China.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 4:02:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#279047: Apr 28th 2019 at 1:11:08 PM

Would you rather

1)A Democrat is elected President but the Republicans now have both houses and the democrats lose what they've gained.

Or

The Republican President remains but both houses are controlled by the Democrats

We just had a Democrat President with Republican-led Congress. It's the reason we have a Republican-led Supreme Court now.

The Senate is the greatest power in Washington. It doesn't just control the budget, it doesn't just write laws, it also controls the Presidential nomination process - which directly controls who gets to take a seat in the Executive and Judicial branches.

There is no seat more important in all of Washington than "Senate Majority Leader". That seat can make or break a Presidency.

I know everyone's freaking out about Trump but bear in mind that if Republicans didn't also control the Senate, Trump would never have been a problem. This f*cker would be out of office today with a Democratic Senate, with Mike Pence being given some stern but meaningful glares every time he starts talking about the LGBT community.

It's not just having a toxic President that's caused this problem. There are systems in place to deal with that. The problem is that those systems cannot be used, because the Senate is the be-all end-all ultimate power and the Republicans have that too. The Senate has the power to fire the President of the United States, the power to declare him immune to all laws, and the power to both ease and create restrictions on what he can and cannot do.

And, as noted above, the Senate makes all hiring decisions on judges; the President has to nominate them, but only the Senate has the ability to declare yes or no on his selections.

I'd take a Democratic Legislative over a Democratic Executive in a heartbeat. The President's basically a PR guy. The Senate's where everything really happens.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#279048: Apr 28th 2019 at 1:32:11 PM

I mean, in fact if the Democrats take the Senate in 2020, they probably took the Presidency as well, and if they lose the house, the Republicans probably have trifecta. Not that I think that's likely; we'd need a pretty dramatic reversal in Trump's public perception for that to happen. The outcomes I see as realistic are:

  • 1. Status quo is maintained
  • 2. Dems take the Presidency, but not the Senate
  • 3. Democrats get a trifecta.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#279049: Apr 28th 2019 at 1:56:48 PM

Yeah this isn’t a realistic consideration, it’s purely a thought exercise detached from reality. If people find that fun that’s fine, but the scenario is not grounded in realistic political possibility.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#279050: Apr 28th 2019 at 2:26:40 PM

I also think, as bad as Trump is, I'd rather have the Senate and House in democratic control and him for 4 more years than a basically powerless democratic president.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

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