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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#278976: Apr 27th 2019 at 8:35:45 AM

Which still doesn't explain how a white woman is trailing behind in "electability" behind people who aren't straight white men. Booker, Harris, Buttigieg, even Gabbard...they are all ahead of Warren in terms of "electability" in some surveys.

Since I didn't mention Warren this has absolutely no relevance to my post.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278977: Apr 27th 2019 at 8:41:27 AM

The point is that it's not quite as simple as "white men are favored", though it's a big part of it, considering that two white men are seen as the most "electable".

Even other women, including women who aren't white, are ahead of Warren somehow in this.

You'd think that if it was as simple as how far one deviates from the "standard" that is "straight white male", then Warren would at least be ahead of Harris. Which tbf, she is according to one of the ways electability was measured.

The first methodology in the 538 article on electability gives Warren better odds than the second one (though still not very good ones) which has her dead last. The first methodology also very quickly shows the pattern that, yes, straight moderate white men are getting more "electability" points. Like I said, it's a big part of it even if it's not the whole story.

Edited by M84 on Apr 27th 2019 at 11:52:25 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#278978: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:01:55 AM

[up] You can have variations and exceptions, but it doesn't change that the system of electability itself by nature tends to favor white men over POC and women. Other "ingredients"note  might contribute to how "electability" works, but that cannot be divorced from the fact that it both favors privilege and self-perpetuates that privilege. (As voting only for white men because they're electable means that only white men will be seen as electable).

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278979: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:05:23 AM

[up]And the article says as much. It explicitly calls out the pattern and even references a poll that outright confirmed that a lot of people think "white man" means electability.

My point is that Warren clearly has something else going against her that is causing her to underperform even while taking the sexism into consideration.

On the bright side, it looks like Warren has barely pulled ahead of Sanders when it comes to endorsements.

The 2020 Endorsement Primary

Warren has 23 to Sanders' 22.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:09:10 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#278980: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:13:10 AM

The moderate bit of “moderate, white, man” could be part of it, she’s very openly left wing. Gillibrand also has a problem, being a white women seems to manifest differently than being a minority women, as white women remind people of Hillary, while minority women can either not invoke Hillary or even invoke Obama.

There’s also just personal factors, Warren’s campaign hasn’t had a great start and knowledge of her is largely based around the DNA test stuff, which does not make her seem very electable. Plus she didn’t do very well (relatively) in her last senate race.

Warren is doing pretty well with activists (as best as 538 can tell), who are going to be the most informed group, they’re also a group that I suspect we are rather representative of.

Edited by Silasw on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:14:33 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#278981: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:13:47 AM

[up][up] 23 points, mind, not endorsements.

Warren has 7 to Sanders' 10 in hard numbers.

I guess I was a bit confused as to why you were making a point about Warren, as the discussion had already seemed to have ended.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 27th 2019 at 12:15:57 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278982: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:18:21 AM

[up][up]It probably is a bunch of those things. Though Sanders' high electability ratings would suggest the "Moderate" bit isn't that crucial.

As for Sen. Bernie Sanders, who ranks second to Biden in most polls of the Democratic primary thus far, his perceived electability was on par with his popularity as a candidate. Apparently, Democratic voters don’t agree that Sanders’s socialism makes him unelectable.

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:22:44 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#278983: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:21:47 AM

Sure, but to point out the obvious, what’s tolerable for a man is not always tolerable for a women.

Edited by Silasw on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:22:31 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278984: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:22:47 AM

Warren being leftwing likely isn't the issue either considering how well her wealth tax plan polls.

Taxing the rich is extremely popular

Edited by M84 on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:23:18 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#278985: Apr 27th 2019 at 9:39:14 AM

I'll give it some time before I start worrying. Biden is in the lead now, and at least I hope he won't be by voting time.

Incidentally, while looking over the list of endorsements, I find it interesting that Walter Mondale endorsed Klobuchar and Michael Dukakis endorsed Warren. Just in case anyone is interested what former Presidential candidates are saying.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#278986: Apr 27th 2019 at 11:04:33 AM

[up] That's mostly a state thing. Mondale and Klobuchar are both from Minnesota; Dukakis and Warren are both from Massachusetts.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#278987: Apr 27th 2019 at 11:22:28 AM

I really like Warren and what she has to offer, but I think she'd be sunk in the general election because of the Native American ancestry controversy even though it would be complete bullshit.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#278988: Apr 27th 2019 at 11:27:48 AM

People have bounced back from worse scandals, and Trump's preferred method of attack may well alienate moderate voters.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#278989: Apr 27th 2019 at 11:49:07 AM

Compared to the skeletons some people have in their closet, the native american controversy is pretty mild.

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#278990: Apr 27th 2019 at 12:00:20 PM

To me, electability in this election cycle has to come down to the fact that Trump is the opponent that must be beaten, at all costs. So I think that Democrats want someone who can stand up to Trump, because 6 months of playing defence does not sound like a winning strategy.

Which means tapping into emotions that are rarely used - aggression and anger. Which is where we get to the issues of race and gender. Women have a harder time being angry as they get written off as shrill, emotional and harpylike. Non-whites have a harder time being angry as that is often portrayed as threatening.

Those are the unfair standards that our society still has. Everyone commented that if Brett Kavanaugh hadn't been male and white he would have been judged a lot more harshly for his angry tirade at his confirmation hearing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if the opponent was "the generic Republican" then I am not convinced that "electability" would specifically mean male, white with a first name beginning with J. But against Trump, it does because of all the hangups we still have in society with emotion and anger in particular.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#278991: Apr 27th 2019 at 1:14:46 PM

A shooting at a synagogue in San Diego, during Passover services, has left multiple people injured. A man with a gun has been reportedly arrested in connection to the crime.

Edited by Grafite on Apr 27th 2019 at 9:24:26 AM

Life is unfair...
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278992: Apr 27th 2019 at 1:31:43 PM

Fucking Nazis.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 27th 2019 at 1:32:34 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Mr_Madman Almighty Janitor from Eagleland, World of Badass Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: Brony
Almighty Janitor
#278993: Apr 27th 2019 at 3:58:00 PM

At the moment, it is plausible that this attack has a clear motive right off the bat. It is likely the attacker was a Conspiracy Theorist of sorts, but at the moment, there is nothing but fog of misinformation and what people want to believe. I forgot to mention trolls adding to the fire.

I am predicting politicians will capitalize on this incident.

Edited by Mr_Madman on Apr 27th 2019 at 8:39:11 AM

Wait a second: How on earth did I even get here?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#278994: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:05:01 PM

CNN was reporting one fatality.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/27/us/san-diego-synagogue/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#278996: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:18:45 PM

Oliver North is stepping down as the NRA's President after it was revealed he tried to blackmail NRA Chief Executive, Wayne LaPierre, to get him to step down. The New York Police Department is also investigating the NRA now to see if they violated Financial Laws related to their Tax Exempt Status.

The NRA is falling into disarray, and hopefully they soon will completely collapse.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#278997: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:29:44 PM

[up]That's the impression they want to give,but I doubt this their end,they'll still get their funding so they can continue to exist

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278998: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:41:27 PM

Another reason that, yes, Bernie is a minority threatened by white supremacy.

As are all Jewish citizens of the US of A.

Observant or not.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#278999: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:46:08 PM

And even if the NRA itself implodes, it will be replaced.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#279000: Apr 27th 2019 at 4:47:29 PM

I'm not upset at the idea of NRA as hobbyist association. I am upset at NRA media conglomerate and propaganda machine.

The latter doesn't have enough to exist without Russia.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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