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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I think there's a pretty simple explanation for how well Sanders is doing, though? He managed to build up a cult of personality around himself during the 2016 election, when he was proposing a bunch of new ideas and running against a widely hated opponent
On a related note, part of Warren's problem is likely that people that's normally be into what she has to say are instead supporting Sanders, who they think has more of a chance
Edited by Hylarn on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:22:51 AM
I don't want to sound confrontional, but the whole "This minority is more oppressed than this" is extremely out of place and even somewhat disturbing, to be honest. There are a sizeable number of Latinos too who could "pass as white". Are they "profitting from white supremacy" too?
Besides, what "passing as white" implies is basically "Well, as long as he keeps being gay/jewish a secret, he isn't getting discriminated, so why the hell does he complain?" Do you see the problem with that?
Honestly, just stop this nonsense. This isn't a game of who is the most oppressed and this kind of infighting is exactly what the left does NOT need at the moment. We shouldn't let stuff like this seperate us.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianPresumably, because they felt like it was worth saying but didn't want to start a fight over it.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangThe point is that we had already stopped for a while. It would at least have made more sense if we were still on that kick.
That last paragraph was also ironically enough, fairly confrontational.
Nothing annoys people more than claiming they need to stop nonsense long after they already had stopped.
Edited by M84 on Apr 27th 2019 at 8:19:39 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedPlus, this was never about who is more oppressed. It was always about the question if Bernie reads for the voters as "white" or as "jewish"....and since his name isn't "George Soros" I am pretty sure that a lot of people would perceive him as "white" unless there is more coverage about his faith in the US in general than you would see if you are seeing the coverage more on a "big international outlet" level. Who knows, maybe Fox mentions that he is jewish all the time, but as far as I know, they prefer to portray him has "socialist" with all the misleading implications connected to the term. (Doesn't help that Bernie himself often mislabels himself, frankly, he could counter this nonsense better if he would call himself a "social democrat".)
Edited by Swanpride on Apr 27th 2019 at 5:55:28 AM
It was a polite formality. I WAS quite confrontional tbh, because I feel like this whole debate is rather toxic. As for chiming in after its done: Sry, only saw the argument after it was over, but still wanted to say my part.
But alright, I won't dwell on it any longer.
Edited by Forenperser on Apr 27th 2019 at 2:49:18 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianPeople basically need to accept that to improve all branches of government, you need to get the public to vote good people in.
I refer you to this quote from Duckman, emphasis added:
- Duckman: I just want to get home for my kids' birthday, but this whole leaf-blowing, false-advertising, traffic-stopping, tax-dollar squandering workers-on-permanent-coffee-break, upper-class money dodging, stolen car-parts-dealing, sign-changing society won't let me! And you know who's to blame?! We all are! We say we HATE lawyers, but we can't wait to sue somebody. We want leaders to make tough choices, then we vote 'em out when they do! We all want X-Rated older women with hirsute-upper-lips' chat-lines, then scream bloody murder when we get the bill!
So, I think Biden is starting to slip, just slightly, in public perception. Him invoking Heather Hayer’s murder in his campaign video offended off her family enough that they went on CNN to talk about it. I keep seeing Dems on twitter retweet it.
So uh. Biden definitely isn’t a sure winner. His gaffes could very easily sink him by the end of the primary, especially as more people learn about his inappropriate touching and the Anita Hill stuff.
Wait for the next set of polls. We'll see the impact then, if there is any.
The thing is, the shit that makes Biden offensive to us? That really isn't a dealbreaker for a lot of Democratic base voters.
If it does bleed his voters, they'll probably go to Harris or something.
Edited by M84 on Apr 27th 2019 at 9:44:49 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedIn 6-1 Decision, Kansas' State Supreme Court ruled that the Kansas Constitution protects a woman's right to get an Abortion
, striking down the 'Kansas Unborn Child Protection from Dismemberment Abortion' Act, which had made illegal dilation and evacuation abortions. Since the ruling was based on the State's Constitution and laws, and not based on Federal laws, it can not be repealed.
This is a good day for Women's Rights, especially in Kansas.
I don't think this is a good comparison, the people who aren't bothered by the creepy behavior are generally more moderate and think #Me Too! is going too quickly. So it makes sense that they wouldn't view it as a deal breaker, using a murdered woman as a political ad and earning the very public ire of her mother is something that is not so easily waved away.
Does it mean that Biden is automatically sunk? Of course not, but I think it would be a mistake to view it in the same way as his contact with women. There's rather different.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
Well duh - remember, that was the plan for gay marriage prior to the Supreme Court saying unambiguously otherwise.
As for the Federalist Papers quote - In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
Something to keep in mind is that the initial Articles of Confederation gave entirely too little power to the government, to the point that the army wasn't being paid at all because the Federal government had no way to get the States to chip in, leading to the Newburgh Conspiracy
and Washington's famous Shaming the Mob speech. So that particular thought is absolutely on-point with that in mind.
Edited by ironballs16 on Apr 27th 2019 at 10:13:17 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
Either way, we'll have to wait for polls in a few days to see if there's a noticeable dip.
And to see which candidates benefit from that dip.
Actually we might have to wait for polls from the week after for a more clear picture.
Edited by M84 on Apr 27th 2019 at 10:15:38 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedBiden is relying a lot on being seen as electable, if his numbers against Trump slip (which they likely will as Republicans turns against him more now he’s officially running) or the numbers for others go up (which they could as democrats know them for more than the first impression), Biden could be in a fair bit of trouble.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThat would be nice, I really despise electability's use in practice.
It's too often used as a tool for moderate white guys against women and people of color who hold actually ambitious positions.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 27th 2019 at 8:22:41 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangProbably because she reminds people of Hillary Clinton, and Clinton lost aganinst Trump. It's hard to have a more compelling evidence of unelectability than this (other than actually losing an election oneself).
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Edit:
So 538 Nate Silver revised his "tiers" for likely Democratic Primary winner based on the polls:
Silver Bulletpoints: I’m Revising My 2020 Tiers To Better Match The Polling
1a. Biden
1b. Sanders, Harris, Buttigieg
2a. Warren, O'Rourke
2b. Booker, Klobuchar, Abrams
3a. Castro, Gillibrand, Inslee, Yang
3b. Bennet, Hickenlooper, Ryan, Bullock
For Warren supporters, Nate offers his two cents on why Warren isn't polling well, and how she can still pull a win, particularly against Sanders.
But it’s easy enough to imagine scenarios where she becomes a front-runner. Voters could gradually overcome their doubts about her electability. Or she could maybe reorient perceptions if she keeps focusing on policy. Rank-and-file voters don’t care that much about policy, but being policy-focused can be a good way to get favorable media coverage and influence party activists.
Or if Sanders falters, maybe Warren would stand to gain ground as the leading candidate of the left. Or would she? One question is why she hasn’t picked up more support from Sanders voters in the first place. Her policy proposals, if anything, have been a little bolder than his — for instance, she proposed a wealth tax rather than just an increased estate tax. Yet she’s sitting at 7 percent in the polls while he’s at 20.
He suspects that the key difference between Warren and Sanders that could make or break either of them is this: Sanders doesn't respect the Democratic Party or its institutions, while Warren more or less does ("DNC rigged primaries" notwithstanding).
And here's their roundup of the candidates' actions recently:
What The Potential 2020 Candidates Are Doing And Saying, Vol. 16
Edited by M84 on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:36:52 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised