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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278551: Apr 25th 2019 at 4:53:51 AM

[up][up]There's also the fact that a while back she filled out a registration card to practice law and labeled her ethnicity as "American Indian". So she did in fact identify herself as Native American.

It did kind of blow over...but it was indeed a thing she actually did.

Still, as shitty as it was, I doubt this is still a major factor in why she's not polling so well.

Edited by M84 on Apr 25th 2019 at 7:55:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#278552: Apr 25th 2019 at 4:56:37 AM

Okay, that I didn't know.

Still, doesn't seem like the kind of stuff that would hurt her chances at the election this much.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#278553: Apr 25th 2019 at 4:58:54 AM

It’s all some people know about her.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278554: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:00:02 AM

I mean, I've got my reasons for not supporting her, but I somehow doubt my reasons are the main reasons why she's struggling in the polls.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278555: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:17:04 AM

She absolutely killed it at the She the People event. We’re over a year out; people preemptively trying to pitch her in a grave based on unsubstantiated suspicions of electability aren’t practical, they’re scared.

But Warren drew the loudest applause with her response to Reid’s claim that many women of color are afraid, in light of Donald Trump’s defeat of Hillary Clinton in 2016, that the country is unwilling to elect a woman president.

“Let me just say this about confidence,” Warren said. “Look, this is the heart of it. It’s: How are we going to fight? Not just individually but together. Are we going to fight because we are afraid? Are we going to show up for people that we don’t actually believe in, but because we are afraid to do anything else? That’s not who we are. That’s not how we’re going to do this.”

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278556: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:29:13 AM

What's curious is that even compared to other "less electable" candidates (ie women and minorities), Warren is still somehow less electable than most.

Like, how is Warren less electable than Gabbard?

Edited by M84 on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:30:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#278557: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:31:24 AM

Biden needs to fuck off. We stand to lose support among women and young people if we go with him.

Any electability argument is ridiculous. Biden ran for President twice already and was rejected early both times. He's a Paper Tiger. The centrists like him now, but let him talk and his support will evaporate.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278558: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:33:09 AM

It's less the centrists and more the older voters who seem to support him.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#278559: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:34:27 AM

[up][up] I'm not quite sure that's true. I linked a pool a page or so ago that suggested Biden isn't as far down in those demographics as we've assumed

Edit: Here it is https://reut.rs/2IDIbpo

Edited by sgamer82 on Apr 25th 2019 at 6:36:35 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278560: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:34:47 AM

[up]Yeah, I was just thinking of that poll.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278561: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:35:14 AM

I don't think that Warren has lot in common with Hillary other than being a white woman of similar age. If we use that as a basic, Berny has too much in common with Trump.

Yes, she identified herself at Native American at one point, but that was literally decades ago and it is not as if she got any advantages out of it. And let's not forget that Warren grew up REPUBLICAN!!! and only later realized that they were full of b... specifically because she realized that the whole story about people being in debt were just lazy and/or irresponsible wasn't true. Since she used to be a Republican, I am sure there is a lot of stupid shit she did in the past, but unless someone digs something up she did in the last decade or so, I don't think that it is relevant. Also, progressive Voters will most likely care more about her proposals and swing voters most likely don't really understand why it is something bad outside of the "hehe, look how hypocritical leftists are" angle.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278562: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:36:28 AM

[up]Hey, I said it wasn't really that big a deal and that it's likely already blown over.

I was just clarifying to another poster that there was more to it than what they assumed.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278563: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:39:48 AM

[up] Yeah, i know, but it is worth pointing out that the whole Pocahontas thing is the equivalent to "but her e-mails" and pretty much beaten to death at this point.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278564: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:40:50 AM

[up]Eh, not really. That registration card thing was a relatively new revelation in that mess. Still blew over eventually.

The point is that Warren has to really step up her game somehow. It's not a good look when you're polling in the same range as a relative newcomer who only started campaigning a couple weeks ago and are seen as less electable than friggin' Tulsi Gabbard.

Edited by M84 on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:44:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#278565: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:43:32 AM

With Warren, all her controversy proved is that she rose to the bait that Trump set for her. None of the other candidates have done so. Which when it comes to electability (defined purely as "able to beat Trump") questions puts her on the back foot - it isn't hard to imagine that a "Presidential" campaign between her and Trump will just be him pushing the Pocahontas button again and again and again and again. It will be the 2020 version of "but her emails" - although even I can't imagine from Trump "Russia, if you are listening, I would like you to find those missing DNA test results"

Other than that the only person I feel has electability concerns is Gillibrand. Again, Trump has a very crude and exploitable attack on her - his claims of being involved in New York politics as a doner and the implication that she is compromised as a result - with all the most crass and sexist interpretations of that statement. And I am sad to say that I don't think society is in a place where such an attack on a woman's character would be met with universal disgust and thus rebound on the accuser.

All the rest - well we don't know how they would react to a Trump attack, but the feeling I get is that most Democrats are tired of the Obama mantra of "When they go low, we go high." Trump is shameless, so going high feels more like a concession than a principled stand. So people want a fighter in the ring with Trump - and I guess that is where Biden comes in because out of all the candidates he is the only one who is a proven fighter. Everyone remembers his put down on Paul Ryan. And it's hard to imagine something similar coming out from Harris, Booker et al. because aggression is not in their nature. (Or how they carry themselves - again, I would say that sadly society is less accepting of aggression from non-white people and from women, so that really makes it difficult to respond to the outrageous insults that may come their way)

That's just my thoughts on the issue of electability. Ultimately it is rooted in the belief that policy doesn't matter, political records don't matter and even character doesn't matter to some extent. It's all about who can survive six months or so of constant attack by Trump, aided by the media who will insist on commentating on every attack and demanding a response.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278566: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:51:10 AM

[up] That is your interpretation. I still think that there was no winning for her in that situation and the path she choose ensured that she can now remind him of the promise he made should he bring it up again. The so called controversy wouldn't have gone away in any case, because that is literally the only weapon the republicans have against her.

Also, you act as if she, I don't know, snapped at him or stormed out of the house. I am ready to bet that she talked with other people who are experts in this field before she took the test.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#278567: Apr 25th 2019 at 5:56:32 AM

What I'm getting from [up][up] is that whether there was a winning path or not doesn't change that she probably took the worst of the losing paths.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278568: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:07:49 AM

[up] No, she didn't. Like I said, the nonsense would have never died down but now whenever Trump brings it up in a debate she can just answer "aren't you owing me some money? Just send it to X organisation which supports native americans".

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278569: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:08:30 AM

She made a bad decision, early on, and I think she’s learned better than to repeat it. Most voters either never heard about it, already forgot, or don’t care.

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#278570: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:09:09 AM

I agree that there probably wasn't a winning path for Warren. And bringing up the failed promise from Trump isn't a good move because a) he is shameless, b) he will simply move the goalposts to put it back onto Warren and c) his supporters view the "promise" as a clever trap that Warren fell into and thus outsmarted her.

Electibility questions are horrible - as I said, it assumes we are going to get the worst of all Presidential contests with no actual thought about how the US is really going to tackle the big questions of inequality, climate change and international affairs. So in a way, Warren is doing the best thing she can do, which is try and push the debate into that higher plane of actually debating the issues. If the tone of the campaign could be raised to debates around policy and not about the personal, then Warren would be seen as the clear favourite.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#278571: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:14:12 AM

Now Stephen Miller is refusing to testify before Congress about the immigration agenda. This is not good. It's plainly obvious that the president feels like he can just do whatever he wants.

The next thing will be: "You know what? I don't feel like leaving office. What are you gonna do about it?"

Edited by speedyboris on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:18:31 AM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#278572: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:17:34 AM

The stupid thing about the perception of electability is that it's based on a completely different political environment than the one we're currently in. Trying to appeal to the center isn't helpful when there's barely any center left. Similarly, being a white male is probably bad for a democratic candidate, given what the base is like. But it's been decided that Biden's going to be the candidate because of decades-old ideas that missed crucial points even then (charisma is still important, and still something Biden has issues with)

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278573: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:22:42 AM

Or we could see how candidates do at events, with policy, with voters, with social media, to gauge electability, rather than assumptions and early polls that highly depend on name recognition and small sample sizes.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#278574: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:26:28 AM

[up][up] I don't think "it's been decided that Biden's going to be the candidate because" given the contest that decides the candidate has not actually started yet.

Edited by sgamer82 on Apr 25th 2019 at 7:27:00 AM

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#278575: Apr 25th 2019 at 6:28:02 AM

But it's been decided that Biden's going to be the candidate

No it hasn't. Not even nearly. These are still early, early, early days.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

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