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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#278426: Apr 23rd 2019 at 4:46:19 PM

[up]x4 Yes, he actually would. If there's anything we've learned from the Mueller Report (other then a)Barr was full of crap with his summery, and b)Trump is guilty of a lot of things already reported on), it's that Trump's Administration is full of individuals with no loyalty, and a massive fear of going to jail. Those 10 attempts at Obstruction of Justice were purely attempts because the individuals who were told to break the law by Trump refused to cooperate.

Barr might be trying to take bullets for Trump, but he won't break the law for him, especially because the FBI is able to do things on its own, and they won't let a Criminal go free simply because he's their boss's boss. If Barr does turn out to be a Papadopoulos or a Flynn, and would willingly break the law to protect Trump, he'd be raided and arrested along with them, along with being impeached properly.

Yes, things right now look bad (and this is exactly why I'm in favor of the Legislature and Judiciary having an independent Police force), but we're not an Authoritarian State yet; there are those who either respect this country, or fear its institutions, too much to simply break the law for their wannabe Dictator, especially because doing so will most likely end up with them going to Jail.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278427: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:14:30 PM

Uh, Barr has already been breaking the law for Trump. He doesn’t think he’ll face consequences, and that makes him dangerous.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#278428: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:25:54 PM

[up] What laws? As far as I know, the only thing Barr has done has said that Trump wasn't guilty of anything and starting an investigation into the handling of the investigation; both of which are crappy, but not illegal.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278429: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:28:54 PM

Barr’s oversight and handling of the investigation is so blatantly partisan and in support of Trump that it’s arguably obstruction of justice.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#278430: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:41:31 PM

I mean, no it's not? Like, choosing whether or not to pursue the investigation further is explicitly a power that he has, and he's not breaking the law by using it. He's been partisan about it, but he hardly went anywhere close to far enough for it to be actually illegal.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#278431: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:51:27 PM

@Sci Fi Slasher: Your attitude is more Regressive then Progressive at this point.

Lol. Once again, people say things, while refusing to actually provide any evidence. Please, tell me, how is trying to fight fauxgressives who view an old white man as this country's savior "regressive"? Please, Demongodofchaos 2, explain to me how it's "regressive" to try to get it through people's heads that it is their rejection of intersectionality that is preventing progressives in this country from providing unified support against Trump and his supporters.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#278432: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:52:55 PM

I think the point is that you come off as way more aggressive than is necessary. I've certainly thought that before, anyway, and you've been thumped at least a couple of times for it.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278433: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:53:02 PM

[up][up][up] Covering up Trump’s conduct, refusing to cooperate with Congress, that’s not in his legal discretion.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:53:12 AM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#278434: Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:59:17 PM

Pretty sure that deciding what sensitive information gets released to who is exactly in his legal discretion. Or to the extent he did, anyway. I'm sure he wouldn't have let the actual Mueller report get released if he thought he could get away with burying it.

Like, you can disagree with his decisions, and I can agree, but claiming that it's actually criminal? That's a rather stronger claim. Especially because you're just using as a supporting argument for even more out there idea that that means he's above the law.

Edited by Gilphon on Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:00:36 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278435: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:18:48 PM

It's slimy and partisan as hell, but not illegal.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#278436: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:29:49 PM

If Slimy and Partisan were illegal, we'd no longer have a functioning goverment.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#278437: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:31:48 PM

The issue is not "Centrist Democrats refuse to accept the Left". That's pure projection, and it's actually the other way around, the self-proclaimed Left has shown to be willing to refuse to vote for any candidate that isn't extreme enough for them.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278438: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:33:40 PM

The worst that some "establishment" Democratic politicians have said or done when talking about "progressives" is point out that votes are more important than a Twitter following.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#278439: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:39:36 PM

For a Department of Justice employee, slimy and partisan is illegal. The Hatch Act didn't stop existing when Comey was fired; anyone in the Executive branch below the policy-making level is legally barred from participating in a political campaign.

By acting as if he were Trump's personal attorney, William Barr is openly violating the apolitical requirements of the position he holds.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:40:13 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278440: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:45:30 PM

The hard part is actually proving that the redacting was a political move as opposed to whatever justification Barr used.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278441: Apr 24th 2019 at 12:39:43 AM

One has to give it to warren: It is really clever to talk about "only 2 cent of each dollar someone who earns over X thousands dollars earns". Not that I disagree with her idea, but it also sounds better than saying "we want a 2% tax on the rich".

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278442: Apr 24th 2019 at 12:52:15 AM

Too bad there's a good chance the tax would be ruled unconstitutional.

Fact-checking Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax claims

The 16th Amendment states that Congress can "lay and collect taxes on income," not wealth. Unlike the gift and estate tax, Warren's plan would be taxing the actual wealth — a problem which would likely reach the Supreme Court if the tax went into effect.

There is some grey area and just enough leeway that the Supreme Court if it's sympathetic might rule to allow it anyway —

<looks at current lineup of the Supreme Court>

— well, shit.

And considering how Warren's proposals rely on this wealth tax to be funded...

Edited by M84 on Apr 25th 2019 at 3:55:00 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278443: Apr 24th 2019 at 12:56:57 AM

[up] Frankly, a lot of her proposals would actually save the US money anyway.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278444: Apr 24th 2019 at 1:00:02 AM

You'd think someone as focused on policy proposals and styling herself as something of a policy wonk would have picked up on this potential problem.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#278445: Apr 24th 2019 at 1:00:12 AM

Just a little something I came across.

Amazing. Truly amazing.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#278446: Apr 24th 2019 at 1:06:33 AM

When exactly does the primary official start?

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#278447: Apr 24th 2019 at 1:30:49 AM

February 3rd, 2020 with Iowa.

And yes, that is the day after the Super Bowl.

Edited by tclittle on Apr 24th 2019 at 3:31:59 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#278448: Apr 24th 2019 at 2:13:45 AM

The issue is not "Centrist Democrats refuse to accept the Left". That's pure projection, and it's actually the other way around, the self-proclaimed Left has shown to be willing to refuse to vote for any candidate that isn't extreme enough for them.

Well, the fact is that two groups with different political ideologies are in the same camp and telling the other "no YOU change your mind". And I think that tarring the entire "self-proclaimed Left" with the Bernie or Bust mentality is gross oversimplification - plenty are willing to hold their noses and vote tactically to get what they might see as the lesser of two evils into office.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278449: Apr 24th 2019 at 2:19:52 AM

Also, bluntly, America does need to shift hard to the Left because the crisis point on the economic and environmental fronts have hit due to....well, people like the GOP.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#278450: Apr 24th 2019 at 2:40:01 AM

Since Reagan and Thatcher the Overton Window was shifted too far to the right in general on both sides of the Atlantic. Shifting it back left just as hard is merely a balancing move at this point.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

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