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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#278326: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:21:09 AM

I get that Bernie is not the best candidate, he wouldn't be my first choice if I were an US citizen, either, but does he really warrant that much hatred, Tobias?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just curious about the rationale behind your dislike for the man, is all.

Edited by HailMuffins on Apr 23rd 2019 at 11:21:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278327: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:22:23 AM

[up]He's someone who really doesn't hold up under scrutiny. To say nothing of his all too frequent gaffes concerning gender.

Still, at least he doesn't seem to have a reputation of being handsy like Biden.

But yeah, I don't like the idea of Sanders being the candidate.

Edited by M84 on Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:23:22 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#278328: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:28:32 AM

They're both so goddamn old.

It doesn't say good things about the progressive movement that the two frontrunners would be over eighty years old if they won and completed a presidential term.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#278329: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:03:53 AM

Ugh. I hate that those two are our forerunners. I mean, I understand why. In addition to being the White Male Default, they both have a narrative behind them.

Just want to point out, Bernie Sanders is Jewish. That might count as 'white' to you, but to a majority of people, including me, he's a part of a Minority (at least in the USA), not a 'White Male Default'.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#278330: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:10:38 AM

[up][up]Ageism is a thing, just so you know.

Warren is no spring chicken, either, and she's by a fair margin the most competent of the big names in the Democratic primaries.

Edited by HailMuffins on Apr 23rd 2019 at 12:12:58 PM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#278331: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:18:01 AM

"I also point out a lot of people blame Bernie for his sour grapes fans. Bernie endorsed Hillary Clinton and sometimes got booed by his own voters for that. However, he said the important thing was beating Trump."

Bernie endorsed her, but then he was red-faced and fuming during the entirety of the Convention, which the media was happy to capture on close-up.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278332: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:25:43 AM

Sanders is very much the angry old man candidate.

Now I guess that's a plus for some people...but not for me.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278333: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:42:34 AM

Old or not, Sanders is willing to speak about massive large scale economic reform.

Warren is too.

Others? Not so much.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278334: Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:58:47 AM

Warren has an actual track record of fighting in a productive manner for the people and she has bolt policy suggestions. That alone puts her over Bernie and Biden in my book. That she is also younger (not much, but younger) and female is a nice bonus, though.

And no that is not ageism, it is realism. Honestly, we already had to deal with a leader not fit for office twice, so maybe it would be smart to not pick a candidate which is pushing the 80s before he even got elected. This is a high pressure job after all, which requires a sharp mind. In pretty much any other job I would say "yeah, the age doesn't matter as long as the job will be done" but nobody can guarantee that Bernie will be able to do the job for at least four years and the chance that he will die or be unfit for office during that time is pretty high.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:04:09 AM

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#278335: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:00:18 AM

I see Sanders as more of the 'change' candidate that Obama marketed himself as, and then ended up not being.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#278336: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:00:58 AM

Apparently Warren had a decade long fight with Biden (who is from Delaware, land of credit card companies and big corporations) in the late 90s and early 2000s over his role in passing a bankruptcy bill that screwed consumers.

... not gonna lie, I wanna see her rip his throat out over it in a debate.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:01:28 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278337: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:07:58 AM

Biden seems to be trying to frame himself as the working person and union's candidate, if the rally he held last week in support of a supermarket workers' strike is any indication.

31,000 striking Stop & Shop workers poised to get boost from Joe Biden

Disgusted, but not surprised
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#278338: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:08:20 AM

Ageism is a thing, just so you know.

And when you're running for the Presidency, ageism is more than acceptable. The sheer stress of being the U.S. president should not be handled by people who will likely die of it before they even finish their second term.

Old or not, Sanders is willing to speak about massive large scale economic reform.

For white people, and men.

People really need to STFU with that "But he marched with MLK!" nonsense. Bernie is a white socialist, much like how someone such as Lena Dunham is a white feminist.

There is also such a thing as "white Jews." The fact that Bernie is Jewish does not obscure his whiteness. In fact, before anyone responds to this point, I want everyone to read this article.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278339: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:11:43 AM

[up]That's all sorts of terrible and wrong.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#278340: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:15:28 AM

This is a high pressure job after all, which requires a sharp mind. In pretty much any other job I would say "yeah, the age doesn't matter as long as the job will be done" but nobody can guarantee that Bernie will be able to do the job for at least four years and the chance that he will die or be unfit for office during that time is pretty high.

Fair enough, but the person above seems to point to his age as if it is a mark against his character, not out of any practical concerns.

Maybe they didn't mean it like that, of course, but that is how it came across.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278341: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:17:20 AM

[up][up][up]The point of that Root article seems to be that everyone in the USA who is a part of USA society is racist in the sense that they are a part of the systemic racist power structures and institutions. It also points out that while Jewish people are indeed targeted by white supremacists, they are also spared a lot of the other systemic racism that permeates USA society.

Edited by M84 on Apr 24th 2019 at 12:17:28 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#278342: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:17:51 AM

They also seem to be talking about his whiteness as a strike against his character as well. If something is racism one way, then it's racist no matter what races you put in the slots.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#278343: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:18:45 AM

I still think polls are useless this far out.

Seriously, they really are.

Things can change quickly in primaries, especially when there's still a bunch of time left.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#278344: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:19:08 AM

Yeah, it is one thing to say "you can't handle this right now" without giving said person the chance to demonstrate that yes, they can, another thing to say "okay, I know that this job has requirements which will most likely too much of a strain on someone to keep it up for four years". I mean, you wouldn't send Bernie to work the fields for the next four years, either, right?

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#278345: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:22:53 AM

[up][up][up] Well, that's arguably untrue. Some schools of thought argue that oppression from a place of power is intrinsic to racism, and so it wouldn't be racist if you took a situation and flipped the races around, without flipping the entire historical systemic power balance as well.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Apr 23rd 2019 at 5:23:05 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#278346: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:37:48 AM

We have a race relations thread, everyone, this discussion seems more appropriate there.

Whether or not one can be racist against white people in a majority white society, that is, not the one about how this should impact one's opinions about Bernie.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#278347: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:49:06 AM

I personally find the meme that Sanders is the “only one willing to speak about reform” a little ridiculous, considering the overview of Warren’s policies we just had in this thread and also considering that Sanders really only speaks about reform in one very narrow category and is fairly problematic in a lot of other areas.

They should have sent a poet.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#278348: Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:57:11 AM

538 is also tracking the endorsements of the candidates.

You may or may not be surprised by who seems to be leading the pack here.

I am surprised that Harris and Klobuchar have so many more endorsements than Bernie or Warren.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#278349: Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:03:22 AM

Apparently Warren had a decade long fight with Biden (who is from Delaware, land of credit card companies and big corporations) in the late 90s and early 2000s over his role in passing a bankruptcy bill that screwed consumers.

... not gonna lie, I wanna see her rip his throat out over it in a debate.

The more I find out about Biden, the more I dislike him. I 100% would prefer Sanders over him, even disregarding Biden's unacceptable behavior towards women. Sanders gets rightfully criticized for being something of a white people's candidate, but let's be honest, it's not like Biden is any better in that regard.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 23rd 2019 at 1:06:05 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278350: Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:12:03 AM

The rhetoric he used at that rally I mentioned had a lot of anti-elite and "common working man" language.

As you can probably guess from my posts in the past here, those are warning signs to me.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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