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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#278101: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:11:04 PM

Do you think it was possible that it mostly just personal charisma? It'd explain why they voted for Clinton.

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#278102: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:12:29 PM

I almost want to joke about how maybe they're just psychic.

Read my stories!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278103: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:14:12 PM

I think that may be a major factor as they seem to have very little interest in the "issues" per se but more the rhetoric. They seem to take "their guy" (once chosen) as someone who will improve things at their word rather than voting on the actual policies to do so.

My mother insists, for example, Trump has made our lives better when he's done exactly the opposite.

There's also a weird thing you'll note among wealthy Kentuckians but a decent chunk feel the desire to vote for who they think will win regardless of whether they support him. I wouldn't bring this up except for the fact that lots and lots of people have said it at the parties.

Many Obama supporters just went with it because they called it like a horse race.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#278104: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:14:58 PM

...huh so I was right about just voting for the winning person.

Read my stories!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278105: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:19:53 PM

But if prominent Democrats go on Fox more and more, it brings the network A) undeserved legitimacy, and B)Ratings that Fox can woo back advertisers with, thus sustaining the whole operation.

This. This is precisely why I think Democratic candidates trying to make their case on FOX News is a terrible, terrible idea.

FOX News is a blight upon this world. We shouldn't be doing anything that could make people think it is not.

Edited by M84 on Apr 20th 2019 at 11:20:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278106: Apr 20th 2019 at 8:20:11 PM

Mind you, in the circles my parents ran, they actually did a lot of government contracts and picking their "horse" involved donating campaign money and expected favors.

So it wasn't just for funsies.

My dad wasn't wealthy enough to buy anyone but he represented people who were.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#278107: Apr 20th 2019 at 9:02:11 PM

People change in four years. There's barely any policy or ideological overlap between Obama and Trump, so the proverbial "Obama-Trump" voter, all that spread really demonstrates is that their personal ideology went off the rails.

Re: Fox News. If this was 2009, I would actually say go for it. They were obnoxious back then, but at least they weren't nakedly propagandist.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Apr 20th 2019 at 12:03:19 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#278108: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:09:57 PM

Rhetoric wise, actually, I strongly disagree.

Obama and Trump both strongly tapped into the statement the Establishment TM was corrupt and they could make dramatic change.

"CHANGE" was literally Obama's slogan.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#278109: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:13:15 PM

Voting for Obama first and then Trump doesn't necessarily imply their views radically changed.

A lot of people are not very well-informed and are open to voting for "either candidate" depending on a variety of factors, a big one being personal charisma. I'm fairly certain Obama's likability played a big part in getting people to vote for him. It's not really about his actual policies, so much as how he sounds.

And while Donald is a rancid person, he does have a sleazy "car salesman" type of magnetism that lets him con people.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#278110: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:25:24 PM

It is impossible to delegitimize FOX News. Let me repeat, just to be clear: it is IMPOSSIBLE to delegitimize FOX News. Delegitimizing FOX News is impossible. It is a strategy destined to fail. It will not work. It is an impossible task.

FOX News is one of the biggest news organizations in America, trying to "delegitimize" them would be like trying to delegitimize Paramount as a movie studio, or like delegitimizing LEGO as a toy company. It is a doomed tactic, right from the start, and you'd be better off giving up and changing strategies.

You cannot defeat one of the titans of an industry by putting your fingers in your ears and going "La la la, I'm not listening! I can't hear you, you don't exist". The very idea is patently absurd and worthy of ridicule. Stop saying we should "delegitimize FOX News", what you're suggesting is an impossible and childish fantasy.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#278111: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:27:03 PM

[up][up][up]Obama 2008, maybe, but not Obama 2012. The 2012 campaign was about defending an agenda. I can sort of understanding a Obama 2008 and Trump spread being a long term rejection of neoconservatism (even if Trump has been doing neocon Mad Libs lately, but going from a 2012 Obama vote, where he's the establishment and a vote for him is a vote to maintain his achievements, to Trump, whose sole purpose is to tear that down, is a demonstration of significant ideological shift in the individual, though not in the demographic.

[up]Fair enough, but Democratic candidates still shouldn't be going on their programming. That's enemy territory.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Apr 20th 2019 at 1:28:42 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278112: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:29:07 PM

[up][up]Except we're finally seeing some pushback against FOX's blatant political agenda. See the bit about advertisers starting to pull out and what not.

So doing anything to weaken this pushback when it's barely started? Not the best idea.

And nobody is pretending FOX News doesn't exist. The DNC at least just refuses to pretend that FOX News is anything but a propaganda network that favors Trump.

Edited by M84 on Apr 21st 2019 at 1:30:51 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#278113: Apr 21st 2019 at 12:21:59 AM

Enron died; it was as much of a con as Feux "News".

Edited by Euodiachloris on Apr 21st 2019 at 8:22:35 PM

Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#278115: Apr 21st 2019 at 12:55:20 AM

"Feux" means fires, and Fox News are metaphorical arsonists.

Just like this other bad guy:

Edited by Oruka on Apr 21st 2019 at 12:55:35 PM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#278116: Apr 21st 2019 at 12:58:39 AM

[up][up]Yup. My intentionally intellectually-challenged point stands. Heck, I even deliberately went for "Feux" after an accident, since I found it hilarious that I got a CFS typo right there that was close to something funnier.

They're even worse for fact checking, after all.

[up]Which is why I found it hilarious. Call it what it is: firebrand propaganda.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Apr 21st 2019 at 9:00:21 AM

TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#278117: Apr 21st 2019 at 1:00:55 AM

A whole load of media died out once delegitimised and marginalised. So anyone claiming that "it's too big to die" is making a mistake assuming it can't.

Faux News can be ground out, and it should be ground out. Or at the very least, made absolutely clear that it's a propaganda bulletin like Putin's Russia Today or the CCP's Global Times, and therefore about as trustworthy as a snake-oil salesman.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#278118: Apr 21st 2019 at 1:07:25 AM

RT is extremely popular in the Middle East. People are rather primed to believe the worst of the USA.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#278119: Apr 21st 2019 at 5:24:08 AM

they've had plenty of experience dealing with military intervention from the US they don't need Russia Today to confirm what they already know

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278120: Apr 21st 2019 at 5:26:28 AM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure homegrown news networks there do enough to remind the people of the Middle East of the shit the USA has done to them.

Edited by M84 on Apr 21st 2019 at 8:26:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#278121: Apr 21st 2019 at 5:51:05 AM

GOP state legislator offered background checks on political enemies: report. Apparently there were also suggestions that violence be applied, and not for the first time in this lawmaker's career.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278122: Apr 21st 2019 at 5:53:35 AM

State legislatures in the USA often have some very fucked up people in them. Even compared to Congress.

John Oliver did a segment on them, along with the creepy influence of ALEC

Edited by M84 on Apr 21st 2019 at 8:54:55 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#278123: Apr 21st 2019 at 7:48:27 AM

State legislatures and local councils are generally cesspools — small voting bases, a generally narrow policy focus, and limited media coverage means a lot of these people spend years in government without ever being exposed. Also, because of a heavy suburban focus, you'll have a lot of NIMB Yism over regional projects like housing and transportation.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Apr 21st 2019 at 10:51:30 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#278124: Apr 21st 2019 at 7:49:41 AM

Looking at state legislatures closely can feel akin to opening a lid on a box and noticing something writhing in it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#278125: Apr 21st 2019 at 3:08:47 PM

I feel smug about the fact that RT America's ratings are so low, they have to pay Nielsen to track them

Do not obey in advance.

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