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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Again, those programs will leave them behind if you don't account for racism. That's what happened in the past. Nice little houses in the suburbs for the white working class, lead poisoned slums for the black working class. If the US is supposed to change, those issues needs to get addressed. and Bernie isn't even ready to admit that there is a problem in the first place. He is exactly the kind of person who would love The Green Book.
Yes, when there is deliberate sabotage by racists that won't work. However, the problem you're describing requires the programs to be implemented by racists and not for programs to have their racist elements exposed as well as dealt with. All of which can be done by the public, media, and people involved.
Part of the reason your objection fails is that a lot of the time those programs were DELIBERATELY designed to exclude blacks and other minorities. You're ascribing negligence when it was malice.
Example: Bernie makes a Housing Program that gives a free house to X people with no house.
The racists will want the black portions not to get free houses.
To avoid this, you need to prevent racists from distributing the free houses. Bernie is not going to be needed to do it.
And again, no one is giving free houses otherwise. So, the objection is even more nonsensical.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 16th 2019 at 10:59:47 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Say what you will about Warren, it is remiss to forget all of the proposals in regards to policy she has made and continues to make.
Don't catch you slippin' now.Bernie isn't my no. 1# pick but I do think he's a lot better candidate than a lot of people give him credit for. The economics system in the United States is horribly f-ed up and in need of radical change.
Racism needs to be absolutely dealt with to fix it but that doesn't mean the rest isn't fucked up as well either.
I use Obama Care as an example of Bernieconomics in action. It's also a good example of why racism isn't alleviated by this given so many people who draw from it remain racists and jerks who refuse to acknowledge Obama did them a solid.
But it still did immeasurable good.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 16th 2019 at 11:06:57 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.So some news that flew under the radar last weekend - 60 Fortune 500 companies paid no income tax
for FY 2018, and a shitload of them actually got money BACK on their returns
due to offshore shenanigans.
Anyone able to find a clip of the GOP claiming their tax cuts in 2017 were aimed at curbing this type of BS?
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Bernie is still way down on my list. I mean, even just watching that town hall meeting from Fox, the man has some very skewed priorities. When asked about his plan on dealing with the imprisoned migrants along the border, his response was essentially "let's not release them, let's just put them in a """proper""" prison." No thanks.
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What's your problem with Harris? And please don't say "She's a cop!"
Edited by Eldritcho on Apr 16th 2019 at 11:31:09 AM
Bernie has a few ideas that are not terrible. What he doesn't have is any understanding of things outside his one narrow scope of subject matter.
This makes him fine enough for a Congressman, Department Secretary, or Party Spokesman. But it doesn't cut it for Presidency.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Currently I am hoping for Warren. For one, she isn't all talk, she actually has already done a LOT to help out poorer people, two, despite her native american gaffe (or maybe because of it), she is way more aware of race relations than Sanders is, three, she is above apologizing if she feels that she has made a mistake, and four, she does have a keen understanding regarding how the system is rigged against poor people, as well as a keen understanding where to attack to improve their conditions. Also doesn't hurt that she is at least female.
But who knows who else will be an option down the line.
Further, Bernie's demonstrated attitude that "Only the people able to vote for me matter" is a terrible mindset to have in a position where a number one duty is interacting with other world leaders and managing our global footprint.
I have no expectation that Bernie would be any better than Trump in the area of foreign policty, and his relationship with Russia in particular leaves me very uneasy.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 16th 2019 at 12:37:20 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.@wisewillow: As I see it, if you want to want a candidate solely based on social democratic economic principles, the choice is probably between Sanders, Warren and Gabbard, they all seem pretty similar on that. Though, don't vote based only on that please.
Edited by Grafite on Apr 16th 2019 at 7:55:12 PM
Life is unfair...@Tobias: You can't possibly claim that Bernie would be on the same level as Trump when it comes to foreign policy. Seriously. He wouldn't take Putin's claims at his word or praise brutal dictators, like Kim Jong Un or Mohammed bin Salman, while criticizing elected ones, for instance.
Edited by Grafite on Apr 16th 2019 at 7:55:55 PM
Life is unfair...I just need to point out that no one was saying any of this, anyway. Saying Trump is a worse president than, say, Reagan, in no way implies that Reagan was good.
So I really don't get the point of statements like this, we're all aware there have been, and likely will continue to be, terrible presidents.
I'm not certain on Warren as a solid presidential candidate, I think she'd make a great president, but I'm not sure she could win. I'd love her as treasury secretary, if a more moderate candidate gets the nomination I think early announcing Warren for a prominent cabinet position could help shore up the left of the party.
As for Bernie on race, he actually does fine, he did baddy amongst black voters in 2016, but that wasn't them having an issue with him, black voters had a higher than average positive opinion of Hillary, it's the same as when Hillary did baddy with black voters in 2008, the problem wasn't her.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWhats my problem with Kamala Harris? Well, how about her mocking the idea of prison system reform, for starters? Or her upholding wrongful convictions?
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I got the impression that some people were thinking that Trump is somehow unique in how bad he is, and I was just obecting to that.
Edited by Forenperser on Apr 16th 2019 at 9:10:01 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianWe've been over everything potentially wrong with all of the major contenders at this point.
What is or isn't a deal breaker now, is basically down to personal preference at this point. None of them are spotless.
There are unique things about Trump. But "unique" doesn't disqualify others from also being terrible. Again, being viewed comparatively better than Trump is in no way actual praise.
Edited by LSBK on Apr 16th 2019 at 2:11:30 PM
I'm not willing to take that on faith. He adores the Soviet Union and voted against sanctioning Russia for the 2016 election meddling. He's also asserted that he only cares about the wellbeing of his own constituency. If you have the ability to vote for Bernie Sanders, he'll do anything to court that vote, but if you don't, then you can die in a pile of nuclear waste for all he cares. No vote in the election he's running in, no voice in Bernie's ears.
These things do not, to me, suggest a man who will engage foreign policy in a way that's to my liking. It suggests a man who's power-hungry, has a soft spot for the deadliest enemy the United States has, and only pays lip service to human rights violations when it makes him look good while being more than happy to commit those violations against people outside his territory. Just like Trump.
Like I said, some of Bernie's ideas aren't terrible. But Bernie himself needs to be kept as far away from the White House as possible, unless it actually does come down to him or Trump/Generic Republican. Let's try to keep that from happening.
Personally, my top picks are Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 16th 2019 at 1:13:16 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

The dismissal of Bernie's social programs to eliminate poverty in America on the issues they insufficiently address racism in America is something that I think is seriously wrong-headed thinking. Yes, racism needs to absolutely be addressed and Bernie needs to do it but the issues of poverty in America are a dire issue that still needs to be addressed and none of the solutions proposed by other candidates come close to addressing it. Frankly, for its faults, it's still hands down the best program we have proposed.
Alleviating poverty of minorities in America is going to be a major boon to them as well—and help their ability to fight for their own rights and political positions. It just falls to voters and politicians to make Bernie's policies better.
In short, Bernieconomics isn't good enough for minorities in America. No one else's policies are even close to addressing poverty in America as a whole.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 16th 2019 at 10:53:45 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.