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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#276976: Apr 8th 2019 at 10:46:06 PM

My grandma is a democrat, my grandpa is an edgy political nihilist, and everyone else in my family that I visit regularly is a staunch Trump supporter. I'm a conservative myself, though a moderate one. And the city I live in is fairly liberal.

Leviticus 19:34
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#276977: Apr 9th 2019 at 4:05:53 AM

I'm honestly not sure about my mom. There are times when I've wondered if the only reason she isn't a card-carrying Republican is because she's a black woman. She almost considered voting R in 2016 while watching the Repub primaries and seeing them talk about the dangers of weed or something, but promptly threw all that out the window when Trump (who she despises) won them. Despite voting for Clinton that year, she was apprehensive about her. She didn't vote in the midterms, either.

Apparently one of my cousins identifies a Republican now, which I just find very sad and kinda disappointing, honestly.

i'm tired, my friend
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#276978: Apr 9th 2019 at 6:08:20 AM

I’m basically living in a constant state of anxiety, since the right wing has made trans people a big target. Wound up spending 3-4 straight days recently dealing with people sending me transphobic messages on other websites, so you know... this country is a hellscape.

My siblings are all left wing (except for one who’s not politically active), and my mother’s family is also left leaning, although they’re mostly the sort of people who would see Biden or Castro as the ideal. My siblings and I would rather see Warren or Harris.

My dad is a diehard Trump supporter, despite being socially liberal (he’s deluded himself into thinking Trump isn’t racist, sexist, or homophobic). His family is more of a grab-bag though. Some liberals, some conservatives, some moderates. I don’t talk to them as much, tbh. Most recently, I’ve had to listen to my father rant about AOC being the devil, which is soooooo fun.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#276979: Apr 9th 2019 at 6:26:43 AM

I've started making rudimentary progress with my Libertarian mom. I introduced her to the Prisoner's Dilemma last night and showed her how, as a manager, she plays that game all the time.

She understood the principle and hated it, but she did see what I meant. I'm going to let her stew on that for a bit, and then when we meet for Shazam, show her how the billionaires she reveres got there by being really good at this terrible game.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#276980: Apr 9th 2019 at 6:51:41 AM

Fortunately, I live in a city that went 90% for Clinton, so I don't really have to worry about running into Trumpists in my day-to-day life. Sadly, some of my more solidly Republican friends are kind of testing the waters in terms of actually supporting Trump, rather than "better than a Democrat."

I just need to make sure to avoid the tourists. Which I do anyway. The cliche about swarms of red-hatted middle schoolers in DC? 200% true.

My parents, on the other hand... yeah. Dad's a fat white lawyer who does anti-union work. He (secretly) loves Trump. Mother... is easily swayed. She's not very informed, but usually just follows my dad's lead. When she comes to visit I can usually get her to come around on a lot of individual issues (I at least got her thinking Kavenaugh was bad, while my dad was 100% on board with him). My sister's more liberal than I am and brother's a bit more conservative, but we all pretty much align, which is nice. And we all agree there's no point talking politics with pops.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
ciyinwanderer Since: Dec, 2018
#276981: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:22:57 AM

I've dealt with depression most of my life, but had actually gotten to a point where it was being managed right before Trump was elected. Since then my anxiety has increased so much I've had to adjust my prescriptions and therapy schedule because I'm constantly high strung from watching the collapse of the Republic in real time.

My family is center with varying degrees of liberal stances. My sister comes to me to hear what the 'left-wing' take is on certain issues, and my parents know better than to bring politics up because it'll set me ranting. Of my 4 parents and step-parents I know for certain 3 voted Clinton; my step-father is suuuuuper conservative, but also a POC, so I have no idea which way he ended up voting.

I work just outside a major city, and my office is a mix of liberal and conservative members so I avoid talking politics... and wish the conservatives would do the same. The guy next to me is the biggest loudmouth and loves to parrot conservative talking points and far-right dog whistles like its no big deal.

This signature was thumped to preserve the dignity of the moderators.
MattC Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: My own grandpa
#276982: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:25:28 AM

As far as family politics in my family goes... My dad is an overweight late 50s white man. He leans conservative but he despises Trump and typically votes Libertarian, though he has gone Democratic at times. Maybe it seems cowardly of me not to, but I almost always avoid talking politics with him. My late grandpa was much the same way, minus the overweight part. My mom, I'm not sure. I've occasionally heard her echo 'both sides' stuff but she votes Democratic more often then not. I myself have been a moderate-leaning-to-liberal Democrat supporter since I could vote. My sister and brother-in-law are of a similar bent. Really, the only real dyed-in-the-wool conservative that I know of in my family is my uncle. My other uncle I have no idea about. He lives in St Louis, and due to his and dad's recently-ended estrangement, I haven't seen him in 15. years

"What do we say to the God of Death? Sean Bean is over there."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#276983: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:30:28 AM

[up][up]If it's any consolation, we're not seeing the fall of the republic. We're witnessing its resilience as the checks and balances somehow are holding despite active influence from a hostile power, all three branches being in control of the party led by an evil, incompetent man, and racists and bigots feeling more empowered than ever.

We're witnessing people fighting back to maintain progress, which is... something. Personally, I used to take it as a given that we're inevitably moving towards progress, and that the bad people will obviously be seen on the wrong side of history sooner or later. This has been a huge wake up call that, well, I was wrong. Nothing's changed, mind you; I was always wrong. But now that I know that, I can not be complacent, you know?

Edited by Larkmarn on Apr 9th 2019 at 10:30:42 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#276984: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:30:35 AM

I wouldn't go for Harris personally, her policies on trans prisoners have been pretty horrific. Warren seems like the real deal about her support for trans people (as she is for just about all her policies, she's a very genuine candidate).

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#276985: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:30:42 AM

So I'm thinking about how to reverse the effects of some of FOX News's propaganda on my mom (and, if it goes well, hopefully others). Part of that means getting her to understand the other side of recent events that she's only got the White Supremacist version of. Which is not easy, since she loves FOX.

Wasn't that long ago she was telling me that she hated Obama because "Like, he's black, that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But he wouldn't shut up about it! He was always talking about how he was black this and black that! Every speech, he's just like, 'I'm SO BLACK.' You couldn't go three days without hearing 'Black President, Black President'! The guy was half-white, y'know. As a white person, I'm offended that he refused to acknowledge that."

There is. A lot. To unpack there and I apologize on her behalf to everyone offended by reading it. Just so, so much wrong with that.

And yes, if you're wondering, she absolutely is victim-blaming Obama for FOX's racist targeting of him over the course of his eight years in the Oval Office.

But I think it has to start at getting her to understand what life looks like for minorities who are, despite the propaganda she's consumed, still being shit on by this country to this day. The trick, I believe, is getting her to reach the right conclusions for herself. It's important to present ideas in a way that can be understood by the person receiving them.

I'm thinking I might start with the Native Americans. I know, going in, that she is going to have a kneejerk reaction to talking about them and assume the conversation is about returning their land or paying reparations. Because those are arguments she's been trained to have, so I'm going to blindside her with a different one: the plight of today's Native Americans.

I want to walk her step by step to this idea. Taking her by the hand, starting at the most obviously horrible thing, and walking her to the conclusion.

  • There are five million Native Americans living on reservations today. Would you support wiping them out?
  • Would you support seizing their land? Forcing them to move and turning their reservations over to farmers or industrial developers?
  • Would you support letting them remain on the reservation, but paving over large chunks of it to create shopping malls or amusement parks?
  • Would you support building a highway through their land?
  • What if it was an oil pipeline?
  • What if it was the Dakota Access Pipeline?

I'm hoping that by coming at it from this angle, I can get her empathizing before she hears those words and goes into FOX Parrot Lockdown.

What do y'all think?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:31:23 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276986: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:37:45 AM

[up]I've long held that facts for the most part are not the best way to try and change a person's worldview. People are very good at lying to themselves and denying what is right in their face to defend their view of the world and of themselves.

The hardest part of trying to "convert" a bigot is getting that bigot to a place where they are able to admit they are a bigot.

You have to confront this at its root. Ask why the other person is so determined to believe what they believe. Why do they need it to be true?

Edited by M84 on Apr 9th 2019 at 10:38:31 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#276987: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:49:36 AM

[up][up] Honestly, I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't help to discuss anything with people whose mind you want to change. Because, well, in a discussion nobody likes to admit that they are wrong. They just entrench even more most of the time. What you can do is to lead them (gently) out of their bubble and confront them with new information. This way they think that they have changed their mind on their own.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#276988: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:52:11 AM

[up][up] I agree conceptually, but it's been my experience that a lot of bigoted people have an answer to that. And their answer is "Because it's true."

They don't see themselves as people who hold bigoted beliefs. They see themselves as the ones who see the world the way it really is. To them, we're the ones with crazy out-there ideas about 'socialism' and 'racism' and other bogeyman buzzwords they've been trained to identify.

Anti-intellectuals believe that they're the ones who really get how the world works. Getting them to recognize their own bigotry requires first getting them to comprehend what bigotry even is. To a lot of these people, for instance, racism ended forever in 1964 and anyone still talking about it is just trying to scam gullible white people into giving them a free ride.

I do agree that facts aren't the way to go about it. Anti-intellectualism has such a powerful grip on conservative minds that they will effortlessly disregard facts. The mindset there is, "Liberal elites could say it's a FACT that the sky is green, but that wouldn't make it true. These people are so detached from reality in their colleges and fancy penthouses. They think they can lie to our faces and tell us it's a FACT that a dog is a cat, and we'll just buy it. They think we're all suckers."

It's not easy to pierce that bubble. I've been working on it for months and only make bits of progress at a time. But so far, what I've found is that you can't talk Big-Picture to these people. Everything presented to them needs to have an empathic appeal, not an intellectual one, and it needs to relate to their life or what they can understand in some way.

I've made this comparison before, but it's like trying to explain technology to an old person. You can't talk about bandwidth and LAN connections. They need to be able to project themselves and/or the people they care about on the subject matter at hand. It needs to make sense from their very different perspective.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:53:57 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276989: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:52:35 AM

It's usually something that has to happen on their own volition. It's usually a result of getting them out of their comfort zone and meeting new people.

So if it's at all possible maybe try to sign up your grandma for social activities. Preferably ones that have her meet more minority folk.

If FOX News is your grandmother's main (or sole) source of information concerning the outside world...maybe that's the first thing that needs to change.

Edited by M84 on Apr 9th 2019 at 10:53:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#276990: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:04:39 AM

Currently, I'm fighting my own battle. My college doesn't have the money to provide proper accomodations for me and other students, so I'm taking it as far as I can go to make them have money. Unfortunately, the recent news about Betsy "fuck this evil bitch" De-"no, I'm not done, seriously fuck her"-Voss cutting money to disability programs in schools across the country has put a bit of a damper on my drive.

I'm planning on taking this as far as possible, even if that means punching Betsy right in her stupid evil face (and I fucking will, I'm more than pissed off enough to), but I don't know if I'll be successful.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:05:02 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#276991: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:07:55 AM

> but I don't know if I'll be successful.

You'd throw a punch and suddenly find your arm being twisted behind your back while you lie face down on the floor,trust me I've picked fights before it and never ends well

Edited by Ultimatum on Apr 9th 2019 at 3:08:16 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#276992: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:09:15 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#276993: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:18:16 AM

-is imagining you in a karate outfit fighting Betsy De Vos-

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#276994: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:19:39 AM

Taekwondo, actually.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#276995: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:23:49 AM

As a Canuck, pretty much everyone I see live thinks Trump is an Assholian from the planet Ass, so conflicting opinions isn't so much of an issue on the domestic front. Still, when I think of Trump, I'm not so sure if humanity is growing, or regressing.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#276996: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:24:41 AM

[up][up][up] To the Mortal Kombat theme song.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#276997: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:26:06 AM

poor Medic,she landed a fatality on him before he could button mash to victory

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#276998: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:26:23 AM

Anti-intellectuals believe that they're the ones who really get how the world works.

Exactly. My partner's ex has recently jumped on a bunch of anti-science conspiracy bandwagons, everything from anti-vax to flat Earth to the moon landing being faked. They've been arguing about it constantly since my partner found out (by way of a school notice about the recent measles outbreak informing her that their son's vaccination records weren't up to date), and she's certain that her ex has latched so tightly onto all this bullshit precisely because she never finished high school and can't understand science, so believing science is a scam lets her avoid that shame. If science is fake, then she gets to be the real smart person by denying it, instead of feeling dumb because she doesn't understand it.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#276999: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:30:20 AM

Could you kick the ass of the Secret Service agents guarding her ?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#277000: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:35:43 AM

Ask why the other person is so determined to believe what they believe. Why do they need it to be true?

Wouldn't the response to this be "because it's true!" or something along those lines? I feel like the question of why someone needs to believe something is treated as an Armor-Piercing Question, but is it, really?

EDIT:[nja]

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Apr 9th 2019 at 11:36:10 AM

i'm tired, my friend

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