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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I'd say I was a centrist, but I've shifted left as the right has stopped offering... anything?
Like, they're not about small government, they're not about helping the working class, they've stopped offering anything that appeals to fiscal conservative values so with the right being increasingly useless, the ideal of trying to be in center has become unnecessary useless since somehow the parties have shifted to "shit and not shit."
I do think that the fact the Dems are basically by default the lesser of two evils means that it's easy for the party to get worse due to a lack of introspection which I think was the cause of that inexplicable Chelsea Clinton diatribe, but as the party is so varied (since again, it covers pretty much every policy that isn't actively bad) that care should be taken to not let the party eat itself.
Back to Noah, I like him, a lot. That said, he's not a political pundit, he's a comedian and entertainer first and foremost. All the late night show hosts are. I'm incredibly frustrated by people forgetting that; Colbert in particular I think is damaging because people glom onto what he says even though he's using it for comedy. I think they should honestly have more responsibility in terms of their influence, to be honest.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.The "comedy shows" give better news coverage than the mainstream news sometimes. It's both sad and hilarious at the same time. The main problem is that they often cannot give as much depth to the stories as they should, since as comedy shows they have to keep up a quota of jokes. This means important nuances may get glossed over, but it's not like CNN is doing any better. "Is the Sun hot? You tell us, by tweeting with the hashtag #opinionoverfact."
I used to lean libertarian, but grew out of it. Today, I tend to argue for more gradual, incremental change, but that doesn't mean I don't support most left-wing positions.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 8th 2019 at 9:59:25 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Ultimatum And I have told you multiple times that I am a swing voter. But if you think that not believing in so called "family values", being fiercely pro-environment, wanting a strict diversion between state and church, being pro a refugee relocation program and being pro restriction of the financial service as well as pro higher taxes for large companies (or, to be precise, pro closing the various tax holes said companies use) and pro an inheritance tax is particularly conservative, okay, I am a conservative.
Though I still maintain that the Republicans have shifted the politics of the US so much to the right, that I guess they moved the centre enough that I am more a centre-left or even an outright leftist in the spectrum of American politics.
News coverage, yes, but interviews, they tend to be very, well, shilly. After all, they want their guests to come back.
Edited by Swanpride on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:02:40 AM
Noah's centrist takes are pretty harmful to the discussions at hand. Of course, there was that time he said a French team winning at soccer was a "victory for Africa" (which reduces national identity to ethnic heritage), but he's also done shit like say Antifa and fascists are just as bad.
"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"![]()
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Christ, I generally hate interviews on these shows. Unless the actor is someone I'm generally interested in (John Mulaney's appearances on Colbert are good because they're basically previews of his upcoming standup), I'm not really interested in them.
And if they're of politicians, they're even more worthless. Even/especially if they're a politician I care for. I understand the point of them, but they're not for me.
Edited by Larkmarn on Apr 8th 2019 at 10:20:59 AM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.The Antifa review by Trevor Noah was actually very useful because it completely derails any conversation by the Right that Antifa is dangerous. Their portrayal was negative but as Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain types.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.![]()
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Amusingly, you missed the two reasons I'm not happy with him.
Those would be joking about the possibility of Nuclear War between India and Pakistan
and jokes about Aborigional Australian women
. Which...yikes.
I get that he's apologized, but still...yikes.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 8th 2019 at 10:24:33 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer![]()
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Eh...I remember that particular segment, and the main point in it was EXACTLY that the players were reduced to their heritage, and not to their nationality. I think there was even a "between the scenes" moment in which he mused at length about it, but there I might remember wrong, it can be that this one was about the refugee who rescued the little child.
Edited by Swanpride on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:24:45 AM
Surprise Touhou Project in there! Near the 3:00 mark!
Though, I hate to admit it, but Golgothas has a point here. "Nazi's are bad, but so is fighting them" is...perhaps not the point you want to make. They're fricken Nazis, for God's sake. They inherently mean harm to innocents.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 8th 2019 at 10:41:07 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerI think that's a stretch to take away from them.
Noah's position being that the way they're going after the Alt-Right is...ineffectual and silly. Which is a different criticism entirely than equivalence.
Not even close.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:40:40 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Yeah, his Antifa segment is not his best work, but that is kind of forgivable. Because nothing her says is wrong and if he had aired this in Germany (or any other country with a police forced which is competent in crowd control), he would have been pretty much spot on. What he is missing / doesn't consider is that in the US demonstrators, especially leftist demonstrators, are often not as well protected as they should be. Charlottesville has shown that. And hence Antifa often acts more as a protective than aggressive force.
(for context, during a German demonstration, you usually have a pre-planned march route with the police practically surrounding the groups which might get violent - usually the right wing, but not exclusively - and who makes sure that there are not fights between protesters and counter protesters. Not the case in the US, though, there counter protestors are often defenceless and might have run-ins with the police itself).
And he is also right that those Antifa member who random destroy properties are idiots. They are just Hooligans who use politics instead of sports as an excuse to have some "fun".
Edited by Swanpride on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:46:29 AM
Yes, and this discussion started because it was claimed that Noah said that Antifa and Fascists are the same. That's in no way what this quote means.
It's obviously saying that violence against fascists can have more costs than benefits and can harm your cause, debatable? Certainly, but to reduce it to "Antifa are just as bad as fascists" is disingenuous in the extreme.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:46:49 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangIt's important to remember that Trevor Noah was born in South Africa and spent most of his life there, having only become a resident of the USA in 2011 (because his stepfather wanted to kill him and had already nearly killed his mother in 2009).
This has given him a slightly different perspective of US politics.
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnd after watching that DS clip, while its not the best take (fascism is inherently violent and can't be fought peacefully, and the right will fabricate left-wing violence anyway if there is none), its not like his conclusion is "antifa is ultimately harmful".
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Apr 8th 2019 at 10:54:11 AM
i'm tired, my friendSure, as do I.
I just took issue with the claim that began the discussion (which wasn't from you anyway), I think Noah is wrong about it but I can see where he's coming from and I don't think it's fair to suggest he was equivocating Antifa with Fascists.
On the topic of violence, I think getting the alt-right afraid to come out in public is a clear benefit on its own, after all, Fascism is fundamentally built on violence against entire categories of people and as such violence against them is merely self-defense.
People who pearl-clutch about violence as a moral issue not just ignore that but also choose to ignore the fact that civilization is fundamentally built on violence and as such, the idea that violence is something with no place in polite society is just a convenient fiction. One that must be repudiated if we as a society are ever going to have a discussion about whether violence against fascists is justified.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:58:13 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Yeah, 'Centrist' is supposed to mean something different than "Center-Left" but the two get conflated a lot.
To those asking "What's wrong with that" well...that comes down to political opinion, but I have a few answers. None of which are more relevant to USA politics than politics in general though.
So, the Sanders vid. Does it add anything to what we know about him?
Edit: Wow. Another pagetopper. Joy. 2/10
Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 8th 2019 at 9:52:42 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer