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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#276676: Apr 6th 2019 at 7:42:41 PM

To summarize: the conservative mindset views society as a hierarchy with people assigned a specific spot in them. Thus, they oppose helping the poor because they think 1) there needs to be a "poor" population, and 2) if someone is poor, they are simply supposed to be. To change this is any way would be to disrupt the hierarchy, and people would end up in places where they "don't belong".

[down]Pretty much, yeah.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Apr 6th 2019 at 10:44:09 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#276677: Apr 6th 2019 at 7:43:47 PM

Very caste system. Hm.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#276678: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:03:15 PM

~Hylarn

What's relevant about it?

[up][up] Ah, okay.

Edited by sgamer82 on Apr 6th 2019 at 9:03:40 AM

akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#276679: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:13:38 PM

[up][up][up] So... it's a case of "If there are no poor nobody can be considered anything else either so we are not going to be able to be rich anymore" Necessary Evil fallacy meets Malthusian "being poor is a moral failing because it means you didn't adhere to the proper work ethic" (or, to quote a Hungarian politician, "if someone's poor, well, that's all they're worth, too")?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#276680: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:28:21 PM

There's also the people who outright think THOSE people would do well to start dying and stop being around.

A lot of this is Randian ethics.

People joke about Atlas Shrugged but the heart of that story is that utopia is achieved by all the poor people killing each other off.

That becomes a LOT darker when you realize people think this is an actual guide for government.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#276681: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:54:39 PM

And in "Makes you see red" news, police are investigating a bullying incident at Jackson Memorial Middle School in Jackson Township, Ohio. The reason? A biracial girl and her friend were surrounded by a group of 10 boys in the cafeteria, who allegedly linked arms, declaring themselves "the wall", and telling her that "this is MAGA country" and "that all black people should die and you're not welcome."

Thankfully, this happened in front of security cameras, so hopefully they'll be disciplined, but... fucking Christ, as much as I know that Kids Are Cruel (especially 6th-graders), this is just... gah.

And this statement from the bullied girl's mother genuinely made me pause.

"We need to pull together as parents of these children — of the youth — and let them know that this behavior is not ok. It's not going to be tolerated for anybody. If we can help prevent this from happening to another kid, that is our end goal here."

Because honestly - how the hell do we accomplish that when the sitting President is the one espousing such rhetoric?

Edited by ironballs16 on Apr 6th 2019 at 11:57:01 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#276682: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:07:04 PM

All right, who's betting on the kids getting off scot-free? I'm putting down all the cash in my wallet.

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276683: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:07:06 PM

[up][up]This is something that was noticed not long after Trump took office. More and more kids justified using foul language and racist behavior by saying "if the President does it why can't I?"

A lot of adults did the same.

[up]Considering bullying tends to get downplayed in general...yeah, not taking that bet.

Edited by M84 on Apr 7th 2019 at 12:08:04 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#276684: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:11:18 PM

Not to mention Ohio has been turning more and more into a hellhole since 2016. It's where most of the Alt-Right and mass shooters in the US come from.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#276685: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:16:01 PM

A study by the University of North Texas showed there was a 226% increase of hate crimes in counties Trump had a rally in 2016 vs those that didn't.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#276686: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:20:19 PM

Hearing about these kids following in Trump's footsteps has me worried for my nephew and nieces since schools today aren't how they were when I was in school. I know my siblings will take good care of their kids, but of course current events have me a bit worried.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276687: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:10:37 PM

Very caste system. Hm.

More an aristocracy. Which is a very bad thing and pretty damn anti-American. One of the ideals of the American Dream is that aristocracy is not supposed to be a thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#276688: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:18:13 PM

It was, of course, the Southern ideal. One of the things that fucked the CIS is the fact they kept assuming Europe would back them because they couldn't wrap their heads around the fact a lot of blood had been spilled to end the days of the aristocracy. Europe remembered what it was like to be the slave, not aspire to be the master.

And the Southern Planters were cosplaying wannabees anyway (and even worse).

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 6th 2019 at 11:18:43 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#276689: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:23:52 PM

While I wouldn't want to draw an exact equivalence between the Revolutionary Guard and, say, the CIA, I wonder where exactly that you draw the line?
Given all of the civilians that CIA drone strikes have killed in the last decade, having another country label them as terrorists would not, sadly, be inaccurate. At all. And if you put them next to ICE for the last two years ...
That's the typical Libertarian rejoinder, and it asymptotically approaches meaninglessness every year nothing is done because it would mean the government gets involved. If not them, who?
Personal responsibility and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, like real Americans are meant to, by God!
I'd gladly pay my taxes to help maintain my neighbourhood instead of socializing with a bunch of strangers to make things work.
I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the number of my neighbors I've talked to since moving in four months ago. I, too, would rather just pay taxes, than try to organize with my neighbors important things like, say, trash collection, snow plowing, or filling in potholes.
Because honestly - how the hell do we accomplish that when the sitting President is the one espousing such rhetoric?
What do you bet those children learned that behavior from their parents and/or other loved ones? You can't just discipline the children, because everyone who wants to make them better people, those chidlren already see as worthless.
All right, who's betting on the kids getting off scot-free? I'm putting down all the cash in my wallet.
I'll see your bet, and raise you a case of Mountain Dew. tongue

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#276690: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:28:22 PM

[up][up]For some reason I assumed that Europe had more than enough on their plate at the time and/or they were playing Pass the Popcorn, rather than being ideologically opposed to the South. I mean for example Britain had its hands full with the colonies and the industrial revolution (and at most probably would have replied to a request for help with "Nah. You wanted us out, you sleep in the bed you made.")

Edited by akanesarumara on Apr 6th 2019 at 8:29:11 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#276691: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:32:50 PM

[up]It was a bit more than that actually as Britain and France both had massive amounts of their population direly opposed to slavery. Even among those who weren't, the CIS was considered a Necessary Evil at best providing them a resource that it turned out they could get them elsewhere.

Remember, the French Revolution banned slavery a century before the South. It's just Napoleon reversed it.

The closest equivalent I could think would be Saddam Hussein thinking the US would bail him out of any problems he got into.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 6th 2019 at 11:33:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#276692: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:38:07 PM

[up]Ah right, forgot about the French Revolution banning slavery as well. I only assumed it will have left mooooore than enough of a bad taste in their mouths to prevent the French from helping people who, like it has been said, were copying the mannerisms of the aristocracy. Especially since that shitshow started so soon after the last time they helped the Americans during the Revolutionary War (and you bet some were saying "the treasury is all empty because we went to help them").

Edited by akanesarumara on Apr 6th 2019 at 8:40:18 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276693: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:43:57 PM

[up][up][up][up]How many of us actually like or even know our neighbors anyway?

I can attest that in suburbia at least neighbors usually feel anything from apathy to passive aggressive one-up manship to just plain aggressive hostility.

Especially if the lazy fucks don’t mow their lawns and ruin the property values. <angry fist shake>

Edited by M84 on Apr 7th 2019 at 2:44:45 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#276694: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:51:34 PM

I only really got to know my neighbors when I was a kid. As an adult, I honestly don't feel a thing about my neighbors one way or the other, and the thought of having to meet with them to organize a bunch of shit sounds incredibly exhausting.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276695: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:53:01 PM

When's the last time any of us bothered to attend an HOA meeting for that matter?

One of the issues with expecting neighborhoods to rally together to help the poor and what not is that many of us see our neighbors not as friends or allies but as competition.

Basically, this:

Edited by M84 on Apr 7th 2019 at 2:56:18 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#276696: Apr 7th 2019 at 12:11:05 AM

Yeah after the war became clearly about slavery Europe turned hard against the confederacy, some tried to run the sanctions but the public was largely behind the sanctions. Lancashire basically starved itself rather than buy confederate cotton, the US Federal government actually sent food aid to the UK and “the Working People of Manchester” pledged their support “to His Excellency Abraham Lincoln,” in a letter they collectively sent.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#276697: Apr 7th 2019 at 12:15:02 AM

Those kids that harassed that girl in Ohio are probably gonna be lionized and portrayed as victims of "political correctness" by right-wing media and will be invited to the White House, just like those CovCath kids from a few months ago. [rolls eyes]

I worry about the kids that are going to be negatively influenced by their Trump-loving parents and peers. They're basically being recruited into white terrorism before they're empowered to form their own opinions. I worry about the kids like my nephew who is being raised by total Trumpheads that post crazy shit to social media.

Do not obey in advance.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#276698: Apr 7th 2019 at 12:15:14 AM

For some reason I assumed that Europe had more than enough on their plate at the time and/or they were playing Pass the Popcorn, rather than being ideologically opposed to the South. I mean for example Britain had its hands full with the colonies and the industrial revolution (and at most probably would have replied to a request for help with "Nah. You wanted us out, you sleep in the bed you made.")

The Confederacy placed all its chips on European intervention on the grounds that A) Europe needed slave grown cotton to keep its textile industry running and would suffer a depression without it. And B) That Britain and France would want to cripple the United States before it got strong enough to become a Great Power and upset the balance they'd created after Napoleon.

As Charles pointed out, these didn't work. Yeah, the British economy did take a hit because of the lack of American cotton, it wasn't enough to drive them to intervention, and they were able to secure new sources in Egypt and India anyway.

Then there was the realpolitik of hobbling America before it could become a major threat to them. This had a lot of appeal among the elites in Britain and France because "Empires gonna empire." It most assuredly did not have any appeal among the working class who were appalled at the idea of allying with the Slave Powers and let it be known they'd blow up at any officials who sided too openly with the Confederacy.

So it went nowhere because realpolitik backed down in the face of I-Don't-Want-An-Angry-Mob-To-Burn-My-House-Down-Politik.

Ulysses S Grant himself noted in his memoirs that despite the British government's toying with intervening on behalf of the rebels, the British people staged several marches in support of the Union and none for the Confederacy.

Edited by Parable on Apr 7th 2019 at 12:53:18 PM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#276699: Apr 7th 2019 at 12:31:38 AM

"So it went nowhere because realpolitik backed down in the face of I-Don't-Want-An-Angry-Mob-To-Burn-My-House-Down-Politik."

I feel like maybe we should bring this kind of thing back as it pertains to politicians promoting and/or allying with despots, racists, and oppressors.

Reminds me of that text post that pointed out how the alternative to unions used to be breaking down the mine owner's front door, and how maybe the rich shouldn't be as eager to shut down unions as they are.

It's been fun.
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
#276700: Apr 7th 2019 at 1:58:44 AM

"As Charles pointed out, these didn't work. Yeah, the British economy did take a hit because of the lack of American cotton, it wasn't enough to drive them to intervention, and they were able to secure new sources in Egypt and India anyway."

Fridge Horror: how were Egyptians and Indians more competitive than Southern US Black sharecroppers?

@Dinkelbergism: this reminds me of a video from Beau about some volunteer work he did after a hurricane, bringing some supplies.

One of his stops was a posh suburb. He gets out of a car, a man runs at him with a gun, shouting "YOU LOOT WE SHOOT". Beau had come to help the guy's neighbors, who were elderly and didn´t have food and water. He didn't even know.

The other stop was a "ghetto". Gang bangers, armed to the teeth, come to him. "Are you lost?" He tells them what he's there for. "Oh, you're the baby formula guy!" They know everyone in the neighborhood who needs anything, they actively help him distribute the supplies, it's done in fifteen minutes.

Edited by Oruka on Apr 7th 2019 at 2:02:37 AM


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