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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#276626: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:25:35 AM

Here’s a link to a transcript of Warren’s full speech. The excerpt the tweet included in my previous post is below.

Eventually, I graduated from law school, hugely pregnant with Baby Number Two—you may detect a pattern here. When I got my first real teaching job at a law school in Houston, I was beyond excited.

I loved teaching so I did whatever it took to make it work. Taking care of little ones, cooking and cleaning, doing laundry at 11:00 at night.

It was hard, but I could do hard. It was exhausting, but I could do exhausting.

The thing that eventually pulled me down? Yup. Childcare.

One memory is still burned into my brain. Going in late in the afternoon to pick up Alex from daycare. There he was, dirty face and miserable in a soggy diaper. I tried to lay him down to change him, but he started kicking and screaming. Finally, I picked him up, along with his bag of stuff, and headed to the car. He kicked and screamed louder and louder, as I dropped things and got more and more upset. I stood there in the parking lot with baby snot and pee on my clothes, unable to get the car door open, completely overwhelmed.

In the previous few months we had tried it all. A baby sitter. A neighbor with kids. A daycare center. Another day care center. Everything had fallen apart.

One night, after I’d put both kids to bed, my 78-year-old Aunt Bee called long-distance from Oklahoma to see how I was doing. I said, “Fine.” Then, with no warning, I started to cry. I just couldn’t hold it together any longer. I blurted it out: I told Aunt Bee I was going to quit my job. I hadn’t thought about it, but everything came crashing down, and the words just fell out of my mouth.

I cried. I sobbed. I heaved. Finally, I blew my nose and got a drink of water. Then Aunt Bee said eleven words that changed my life forever. “I can’t get there tomorrow, but I can come on Thursday.” Two days later, she arrived at the airport with seven suitcases and a Pekingese named Buddy – and she stayed for 16 years.

That story tells a basic truth: nobody makes it on their own.

And it tells another basic truth: without childcare, millions and millions of American families simply won’t make it at all.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 6th 2019 at 11:25:52 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#276627: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:40:16 AM

I don't agree with her, but that was a good speech. I've been considering doing a rhetoric youtube channel, and that's a speech that I'd consider putting on there.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#276628: Apr 6th 2019 at 8:49:17 AM

[up]

Any particular reason you don't agree with her conclusions? They seemed rather spot-on to me.

It's also an argument I've used with the abortion debate - that while I can genuinely give Sarah Palin respect for going through with her pregnancy with Trig, the fact remains that she was independently wealthy with a large support network, which gives a tremendous advantage when raising a Special Needs child. For a single mother in the inner-city or living in a trailer park, the options are far more limited, especially if they're on bad terms with their family members.

Edited by ironballs16 on Apr 6th 2019 at 11:49:45 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#276629: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:05:15 AM

The TLDR; is that the solution Warren sees to the problem of childcare is more government. If that is our goal, I'm skeptical that government is the best way to accomplish it.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#276630: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:11:56 AM

Is there a viable alternative available, though?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276631: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:13:03 AM

Nope. Unless one considers "doing nothing" a viable alternative.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#276632: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:18:15 AM

I'm not sure how you accomplish better childcare without government.

i'm tired, my friend
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#276633: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:33:20 AM

[up][up][up][up]That's the typical Libertarian rejoinder, and it asymptotically approaches meaninglessness every year nothing is done because it would mean the government gets involved. If not them, who?

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#276634: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:37:45 AM

Yeah, we definitely need better childcare in this country. Too many women are forced to give up their careers in order to take care of their kids. It’s almost never the fathers, either. The best way to avoid that situation is to focus on making it easier to have a family while also keeping your career. And the government needs to make that possible.

My own mother wasn’t as lucky as Warren was. She did end up having to quit her job in order to take care of us, until my older siblings were old enough to babysit for her.

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#276635: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:40:28 AM

>If not them, who?

Us.

I'm a big believer in people voluntarily cooperating to do things. If the government can do it, then we can probably do it better or cheaper, sometimes both. What makes me skeptical about government is that the solutions tend towards not being voluntary cooperation. It tends towards forcing people to do or not do certain things. Sometimes, that's what's got to happen, we don't have other alternatives. I guess I'm just optimistic enough to think that a good society should be obtained with a minimum of forcing people to do things they don't want to do.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#276636: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:42:52 AM

I wish I could have your idealism, Soban.

My musician page
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#276637: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:43:55 AM

Which would be great if it worked. But Humans being the selfish brutes that they are, some element of coercion is the only way to get things done in the long term with any measure of success.

Not saying that voluntary cooperation doesn't yield results - it does. I'm saying it doesn't happen enough to be reliable - which necessitates Government intervention. There is no way around this - at least, I personally don't see any way through, and I may be completely wrong about it.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#276638: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:44:15 AM

Governments simply have far more resources and reach to fix the problem than even the most powerful and wealthy charities.

Government inefficiency is a myth and is always a political problem rather than a question of actual capability or money.

Oh really when?
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#276639: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:44:41 AM

[up]x4 And how do you propose that we handle it, then? Because it would seem to me that your proposed solution is both vague and unreliable.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 6th 2019 at 12:46:16 PM

Oh God! Natural light!
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#276640: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:47:02 AM

Who is "us" in that scenario? Neighbors, friends? What if they don't have the time to help? Employers, perhaps? But is a fast food joint going to (or even be capable of) providing a means to watch your kids in the same fashion as a larger corporation?

Your reluctance to involve government is the exact reason these problems don't get solved, because no other entity can operate with the scale or authority required to solve them.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276641: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:53:53 AM

A systemic issue requires a systemic solution. And that means government action.

"Leave it to the kindness of neighbors" and "Support private charities" are not the solution. They're a band-aid at best.

Edited by M84 on Apr 7th 2019 at 12:55:15 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#276642: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:57:38 AM

It's worth noting also that a government like the US government is, contrary to popular belief, actually quite capable of being competent in certain areas. This is an organization that put humans on the moon enough times to get bored of doing so.

@Soban: My counter-argument to that is that the government is "us". If We The People voted for child care services, then We The People have agreed to pay for them.

Leviticus 19:34
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#276643: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:58:35 AM

Exactly. Scattershot, family or community based solutions don’t work on a national scale. But government support of local childcare centers would help childcare workers get better pay/training/class sizes.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#276644: Apr 6th 2019 at 9:59:36 AM

I'm a big believer in people voluntarily cooperating to do things. If the government can do it, then we can probably do it better or cheaper, sometimes both. What makes me skeptical about government is that the solutions tend towards not being voluntary cooperation. It tends towards forcing people to do or not do certain things. Sometimes, that's what's got to happen, we don't have other alternatives. I guess I'm just optimistic enough to think that a good society should be obtained with a minimum of forcing people to do things they don't want to do.
At the risk of sounding overly cynical, the problem is that while we, as a people, probably can provide things cheaper/better than the government, how many actually will? The keyword there is "voluntary", and so the question here becomes is childcare one of those areas where government intervention is what's got to happen.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#276645: Apr 6th 2019 at 10:02:02 AM

And from a more economic pov, this is a good idea too. If working parents have access to decent childcare, that means they can go make money rather than make the Sadistic Choice of giving up their job or leaving their kids unsupervised. Which means they will be spending that money and paying more taxes.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#276646: Apr 6th 2019 at 10:10:13 AM

"Us.

I'm a big believer in people voluntarily cooperating to do things. If the government can do it, then we can probably do it better or cheaper, sometimes both. What makes me skeptical about government is that the solutions tend towards not being voluntary cooperation. It tends towards forcing people to do or not do certain things. Sometimes, that's what's got to happen, we don't have other alternatives. I guess I'm just optimistic enough to think that a good society should be obtained with a minimum of forcing people to do things they don't want to do."

Utter nonsense — voluntary aid maintains an underclass of the deprived by avoiding systemic changes in funding and infrastructure. Progress doesn't happen when you rely exclusively on personal virtue.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#276647: Apr 6th 2019 at 10:13:54 AM

Plus that tends to reinforce economic and racial inequality. See: white/rich public schools with booster clubs who raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for new athletic fields, while Black/poor public schools have faulty water mains dating back to the 1970s.

Edited by wisewillow on Apr 6th 2019 at 1:14:08 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#276648: Apr 6th 2019 at 10:20:40 AM

If the government can do it, then we can probably do it better or cheaper, sometimes both.

We are the government, of the people by the people, us acting to help one another is why we invented government, it’s not some mystical entity that acts on this own, it is the system though which we as a collective act.

No act of charity will match the good that we do by paying our taxes, the fact that so few people take true civic pride in paying their taxes shows that much of the charity we see is a for show.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#276650: Apr 6th 2019 at 11:45:49 AM

[up][up] I perfectly agree about the "we are the government so paying taxes is important" bit (even though I am very much at odds with the current government of my own country). But about the pride in paying taxes, I think for that we would need a chance to feel that those taxes are put to good use and not wasted lining pockets.

As for "whatever the government can do, we can do cheaper" that is definitely true.


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