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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#276027: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:45:21 AM

Another approach is to bypass the EC by having enough states to win the EC give their votes to the winner of the popular vote.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#276028: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:45:21 AM

[up][up][up][awesome] It’s complex but it just might work.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 29th 2019 at 2:45:29 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#276029: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:47:44 AM

it wont work,its unconstitutional it says so in the bible

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#276030: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:48:08 AM

I have a question. Under the popular vote, every president from Clinton onwards would be a Democrat. Is one party allowed to be in power for so long?

Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77 on Mar 29th 2019 at 2:51:04 PM

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#276031: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:52:29 AM

Huh???? Nothing is guaranteed. God knows Reagan was massively popular (among white voters) despite his heinous views and destructive policies.

Edited by wisewillow on Mar 29th 2019 at 2:52:45 PM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#276032: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:53:17 AM

Its not ideal to have one party in power in a liberal democracy, but the hope is that the opposition party will smarten up, moderate and broaden their appeal once they realize that the popular vote is out of reach. But since this is the GOP we are talking about...

Plus, you have to factor in fatigue and blaming the incumbents on the part of the voters, chances are after 16 years of Democratic Presidents, there would be some backlash, etc.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#276033: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:53:45 AM

[up][up][up] Bush won the popular vote in 2004.

Edited by DrDougsh on Mar 29th 2019 at 11:53:55 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#276034: Mar 29th 2019 at 11:55:32 AM

A popular vote is a popular vote.

If one side has won it consistently I think that says something about their approval ratings.

You can't just go; "Well we've had years and years of the people democratically electing this party, we should mix that up a bit."

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#276035: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:20:58 PM

Yeah, if Republicans couldn't count on the Electoral College to hand them wins against the popular vote, then they might actually have to change themselves to appeal to more voters.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#276036: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:23:54 PM

Trump is threatening to close down the US-Mexico border if Mexico doesn't stop illegal immigration by next week.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/29/politics/donald-trump-border-closure-again/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#276037: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:25:18 PM

I wonder what his plan is to close down thousands of miles of border all at once. Post a soldier every twenty feet? He could close the official crossings, I guess, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish other than to stop legal migration.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 29th 2019 at 3:25:57 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#276038: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:27:54 PM

[up]X5 Bush lost the PV in 2000, so he wouldn’t have been president in the first place.

[up] You’re assuming he even has a plan.

Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77 on Mar 29th 2019 at 3:29:14 PM

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#276039: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:28:12 PM

To say nothing of trade. And does this hypothetical order restrict air and sea travel?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#276040: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:30:10 PM

I don't think Trump will be satisfied until he's enclosed the entire U.S. under a giant steel dome.

...I just gave him an idea, didn't I?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#276041: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:31:32 PM

Y'know what's better than proportionally assigning Electoral College votes?

Proportionally assigning votes without the Electoral College. It's a radical idea, but here's my pitch. For every vote that is cast for a candidate, we assign 1 vote to that candidate. Then the candidate with the highest number of proportionally 1:1 assigned votes becomes President.

It depends on your definition of better. If they were equally viable then you'd be correct, but they aren't.

The Electoral College is here to stay unless we can get the necessary support for a Senate Vote+State agreement or a Constitutional convention, I shouldn't have to explain how that isn't possible. On the other hand making the electoral college proportional just requires states to sign onto it, which is much more viable as a means of reform.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#276042: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:31:52 PM

[up][up]Thanks to his tariffs, the steel he needs to do that is too expensive, so don't worry.tongue

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Mar 29th 2019 at 4:32:05 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#276043: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:33:28 PM

[up][up]I don't think that's actually true. How many electors each state gets (equal to number of representation in Congress) is in the Constitution, I think. You'd have to amend the Constitution to make it more proportionate, in which case, if that's an option why not just get rid of it?

Anyway, there is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) in which states pledge their electoral votes to which ever candidate wins the popular vote overall, instead of which wins the state in particular. But that only kicks in when there 276 electors pledged (enough to win) and so far the combined total of all the agreed states are just 184.

Edited by LSBK on Mar 29th 2019 at 2:39:23 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#276044: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:43:52 PM

I don't think that's actually true. How many electors each state gets (equal to number of representation in Congress) is in the Constitution, I think. You'd have to amend the Constitution to make it more proportionate, in which case, if that's an option why not just get rid of it?

Anyway, there is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) in which states pledge their electoral votes to which ever candidate wins the popular vote overall, instead of which wins the state in particular. But that only kicks in when there 276 electors pledged (enough to win) and so far the combined total of all the agreed states are just 184.

You seem to have misunderstood me, I'm not talking about changing how many electors each state gets. I was specifically talking about the NPVIC and how unlike Abolishing the Electoral College it's actually possible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 29th 2019 at 12:44:11 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#276046: Mar 29th 2019 at 12:46:31 PM

After looking back I realize that I wasn't very clear and it looked like I was endorsing a very different position, my apologies for that.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#276047: Mar 29th 2019 at 1:21:31 PM

I basically just worry about a Hunger Games scenario where 51.08 of the people vote to have 48.00 enslaved.

Because the popular vote is unrestricted versus one that guarantees protections for smaller states.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 29th 2019 at 1:23:10 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#276048: Mar 29th 2019 at 1:26:58 PM

So what if 48 percent of the population votes to enslave 52 percent, but wins the EC and gets it anyway? These hypotheticals fail to demonstrate anything wrong with simple majority voting that isn't also wrong with our current system.

Heck, at least in your hypothetical, it can be legitimately said that the will of the people is in favor of slavery.

Anyway, we can keep the Senate as-is, and it can do the job it is supposed to do: be the voice of the smaller states. Any hypothetical institution of slavery would have to pass it.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 29th 2019 at 4:28:29 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#276049: Mar 29th 2019 at 1:37:55 PM

What even constitutes a small state these days? Rhode Island? North Dakota? Vermont? Idaho?

I somehow feel that if you ask the people in that first and third state how well the EC is helping their states, the answer isn't going to be positive.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#276050: Mar 29th 2019 at 1:51:59 PM

U.S. Attorney General Barr will release redacted copy of Mueller report by mid-April

https://reut.rs/2Ozz7Sg


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